WI: Mithraic Rome?

[Xanthoc]

Okay, here's something to ponder: could Mithraism ever become the dominant religion of Rome, much like Christianity did?

Firstly, I'm not trying to continue the ludicrous argument that Mithraism was a threat to Christianity, merely that Christianity was, for a long time, a mystery cult that eventually grew to take over the Roman Empire.

Secondly, I understand that little is truly known about Mithraism, and so this may require some guesswork, assumptions, and conjecture.


Now, the Mithraic mystery cult wasn't necessarily a separate religion for many Romans, I know. But could that change; perhaps an emperor begins persecuting them and they begin boycotting the state religion? Or simply a new decree from the leadership after a vision? An eventual evolution of the cult had it continued on more prosperously?

Following that idea, as Mithraism was popular amongst soldiers, and respected by the government (such as soldiers being exempt from wearing coronets as "Mithras was their only crown"), might its spread be peaceful? Perhaps it spreads to nearly all of the military and their families before spreading to Senators and/or we have a soldier-turned-Emperor after a civil war that believes in Mithras. This could allow for its spread without being separate from the state faith, although it could still occur with that if the Roman government didn't try to persecute them further after the split.

Going along with the idea of "Mithraists are persecuted and so go against the state faith and go underground" idea, could we simply go full Constantine and have some Emperor or some soon-to-be Emperor during a civil war get a "vision from Mithras" that saves his life/wins him a victory? That could lead to an OTL situation with Christianity, where the now underground Mithraists are accepted, and even promoted, with large, fancy subterranean mithraea being built across the Empire.

So what's most plausible? Is it at all plausible? Do we simply know too little about them?

If it is plausible, what sort of impacts could there be?

 

[trurle]

Not plausible. I.m.h.o. the weakest point of mithraism was the its central ritual - a slaying of the bull.
Bulls are not the resource easily available (in ancient Rome it may be equal to $50000 in 2015). So the spread of mithraism to poor or underground was simply impossible.

Also, Mithra was insufficiently universal due his origin from polytheistic pantheon, again resulting in limitation on spread among poor and lawless.

By contrast, Christianity make its point from the very beginning: everybody, regardless of qualities, origin and profession, can become a Christian. So Christinity spread first among the classes who did not qualify for patronage of the more prestigious of polytheistic gods. The Moses the Black sets a very interesting standard.

 

[JJL]

an interesting point to raise,

Personally I think that Mithras was too secretive and tied to the military to become the main religion,
However given the toxicity of the senate and the inacceptance of failure in the republic(think of the spartacus rebellions for one example of how senate presumptions and politics could end careers)
If a sufficient military leader who followed the cult of Mirthas publically were to gain the influence/support of the senate to become a consul or seize power utterly before Christianity became dominant It could be possible,

However my knowledge of Roman military and political figures is fairly narrow so I can't expand further on possible divergent points from OTL to allow this to happen(If Crassus or Pompey were staunch Mithras cult members maybe? but I think it would have to be earlier to fully take hold)

 

[Dragos Cel Mare]

By contrast, Christianity make its point from the very beginning: everybody, regardless of qualities, origin and profession, can become a Christian. So Christinity spread first among the classes who did not qualify for patronage of the more prestigious of polytheistic gods. The Moses the Black sets a very interesting standard.

Not merely that, but Mithraism is exclusive to Men only, while Christian Churches did have Women Leaders early on. In fact, at the same time that Saint Paul was supposedly banning women from leadership positions, he endorsed one female preacher, albeit one who worked with her husband as an equal.

Even after leadership positions became male-exclusive, unmarried women and widows had greater rights in a Christian congregation than in a pagan one...until Christianity became the State Religion.

 

[Xanthoc]

Not plausible. I.m.h.o. the weakest point of mithraism was the its central ritual - a slaying of the bull.
Bulls are not the resource easily available (in ancient Rome it may be equal to $50000 in 2015). So the spread of mithraism to poor or underground was simply impossible.

Also, Mithra was insufficiently universal due his origin from polytheistic pantheon, again resulting in limitation on spread among poor and lawless.

By contrast, Christianity make its point from the very beginning: everybody, regardless of qualities, origin and profession, can become a Christian. So Christinity spread first among the classes who did not qualify for patronage of the more prestigious of polytheistic gods. The Moses the Black sets a very interesting standard.

Well, for one thing, Mithraists didn't actually kill a real bull every meeting, and in fact most were merchants, soldiers, and low beaucrats, the closest thing to a 'middle class' Rome could have. Slaves and freemen have also been noted as common members. Any sacrifices were likely organs taken from elsewhere as most mithraea didn't have the tools and facilities to actually kill a bull. Likely, if the religion went underground from persecution, they would simply switch to more symbolic methods, like cutting a breadloaf like a throat or a watersack or something. Or we could see focus on the Water miracle, and people strain water through rocks to drink; after all, Christians don't renact the Crucifixion everytime they want to commune with God.

Now the nature of Mithras's polytheistic background would, in my opinion, make the religion spread easier in polytheistic Rome. However, the only truly major gods in Mithraic lore that cannot be replaced or excluded are Sol (Invictus), Luna, and Arimanius, the first of whom Mithras shows superiority to, the second merely observes, and the third seems to only control time/seasons. That means the pantheon could be easily simplified and that people would not need the "patronage of the more prestigious of polytheistic gods", as the only prestigious one is Sol, and the big story is Mithras showing his superiorty to him.

Not merely that, but Mithraism is exclusive to Men only, while Christian Churches did have Women Leaders early on. In fact, at the same time that Saint Paul was supposedly banning women from leadership positions, he endorsed one female preacher, albeit one who worked with her husband as an equal.

Even after leadership positions became male-exclusive, unmarried women and widows had greater rights in a Christian congregation than in a pagan one...until Christianity became the State Religion.

Actually, some have begun to speculate the male-exclusive nature of Mithraism to be false. Porphyry refers specifically to female Mithraic initiates, and the conclusion has been that some Mithraic cults in the Empire had women, some didn't. This is mostly because it was spreading amongst the all male army and merchant-class, less from any theological opposition to women in the faith.

 

[trurle]

Well, for one thing, Mithraists didn't actually kill a real bull every meeting, and in fact most were merchants, soldiers, and low beaucrats, the closest thing to a 'middle class' Rome could have. Slaves and freemen have also been noted as common members. Any sacrifices were likely organs taken from elsewhere as most mithraea didn't have the tools and facilities to actually kill a bull. Likely, if the religion went underground from persecution, they would simply switch to more symbolic methods, like cutting a breadloaf like a throat or a watersack or something. Or we could see focus on the Water miracle, and people strain water through rocks to drink; after all, Christians don't renact the Crucifixion everytime they want to commune with God.

Now the nature of Mithras's polytheistic background would, in my opinion, make the religion spread easier in polytheistic Rome. However, the only truly major gods in Mithraic lore that cannot be replaced or excluded are Sol (Invictus), Luna, and Arimanius, the first of whom Mithras shows superiority to, the second merely observes, and the third seems to only control time/seasons. That means the pantheon could be easily simplified and that people would not need the "patronage of the more prestigious of polytheistic gods", as the only prestigious one is Sol, and the big story is Mithras showing his superiorty to him.



Actually, some have begun to speculate the male-exclusive nature of Mithraism to be false. Porphyry refers specifically to female Mithraic initiates, and the conclusion has been that some Mithraic cults in the Empire had women, some didn't. This is mostly because it was spreading amongst the all male army and merchant-class, less from any theological opposition to women in the faith.

Ok, i got the point. So my conclusion the cult of Mithra had a chance to become an universal religion in Roman Empire after an evolution (to use still cheaper sacrifices and after spreading from middle class to lowest). In OTL, nobody gave it such time or possibility.. But in the scenario you propose, one severe defect: Mithra PROVE his superiority over other gods, not assumed superior from start. It gives a way to the same hole as Chinese "mandate of heavens", but now in religious rather than secular sphere. So, welcome to Mithraism overthrow by something like Islam analogy sometimes in 600-900 A.D.!

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

I keep saying the best chance is for the leaders of the Mithraic cult to realize the limits of the cult, and forge an alliance with one of the Great Mother cults (Isis, whatever), so there is something for both the men and the women.

This would be incredibly tough to pull off, but IF they managed it, they might get a big enough base to be the primary religion.