WI: major USN refit in the 30s?

Let’s go with options one and two. How would these improvements affect the careers of the shifts? For example, does the increased sortie generation. Save Lexington at Coral Sea, or at least sink one of the. Might it save enterprise from that last kamikaze by leading her to being the surrender ship?
The issue with Lexington is the avgas leak after she was hit at the Coral Sea. If someone at either the Bureau of Aeronautics or Bureau of Ships figures out the dangers of leaking Avgas far sooner. Then her sinking is avoided. Although Lexington would still be in no shape to fight at Midway.

As for Enterprise. It’s down to a matter of luck and manoeuvring.
 
I wonder if we could see a 'Warspite' like deep refits and/or the Japanese refits triggering a similar exercise in the USN battle line

I can see the Nevadas and subsequent 'Standards' benefitting from Small tube boilers even if not increasing power could free up 1000 odd tons or so

However there does not appear to have been much in the way of appetite in the US Government in seriously modernising the ships with congress historically quite stingy

How to change that? I dunno!
Did USN (and IJN) not spend more than RN on its BBs especially before the QE rebuilds? The issue is that they ships are slow, so they just can't really be made that much more useful for WW2 that they were?

Did a lot of the stuff meant for cancelled WNT ships not end up going into early BB refits like IJN 16" mount swaps, but in USN case more SD boilers etc?
 
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Driftless

Donor
What did the prewar and WW2 refits to the Standards do for performance? Specifically adding torpedo bulges.
 
Did USN (and IJN) not spend more than RN on its BBs especially before the QE rebuilds? The issue is that they ships are slow, so they just can't really be made that much more useful for WW2 that they were?

Did a lot of the stuff meant for cancelled WNT ships not end up going into early BB refits like IJN 16" mount swaps, but in USN case more SD boilers etc?
Most of Japan’s comprehensive rebuilds were conducted around the same time as Britain’s, though they paid for more of them. And yes, a lot of material from cancelled ships ended up in the rebuilds. The Americans were the ones who did their rebuilds before the British.

What did the prewar and WW2 refits to the Standards do for performance? Specifically adding torpedo bulges.
The rebuilds were primarily concerned with enhancing protection and gunnery, the WW2 refits also adding AA armament.
 
By late 1936 the WNT is basically dead. Everyone was building new battleships. Money was the big problem. The second London treaty was about the most idiotic treaty ever signed.
It did have the perk of removing the quotas on net tonnage for DDs, cruisers, Capital ships, and carriers Albeit the dumb as hell limits on the later 3 in tonnage per ship was stupid.
 
Warspite was catching up to the Standards. Several got major refits in the late 20s/early 30s with new fire control, tripod masts, new secondaries/AA, bulging, small tube boilers and raised gun elevations. The UK was very much the ones behind with refits of capital ships.
The Standard's major problem is much like Barham and Malaya, those that were worth refitting got their refits too early to make sense to go again in the late 30s.
And that would be true if it wasn’t being done as a political response to the Japanese doing some more things. Yes militarily from a peacetime perspective there no urgent need, but politically? that’s entirely different story they are proof that the Japanese are doing this and they need to respond.
 
Refit of build new? By the time the Japanese are ready to play there are a couple of KGVs (more so with no European war) and NCs in the water. There is a lot of emotion tied up in refits, but if we are completely honest all the older ships served adequately and the WWI refits of the Standards was a complete waste of money.
 
The issue with Lexington is the avgas leak after she was hit at the Coral Sea. If someone at either the Bureau of Aeronautics or Bureau of Ships figures out the dangers of leaking Avgas far sooner. Then her sinking is avoided. Although Lexington would still be in no shape to fight at Midway.

As for Enterprise. It’s down to a matter of luck and manoeuvring.
I don't know. If Lexington was saved, why wouldn't she have fought at Midway. Yorktown was more badly damaged but was jury-rigged enough to join TF-17. There were enough aircraft to form an air group for her. With a 4th carrier at Midway, it could make up for Commander Ring leading the Hornet's SBDs on the flight to nowhere. With Lexington's SBDs all 4 Japanese carriers could've been sunk in the morning attack, so the Hiryu wouldn't get off its strike on the Yorktown in the afternoon. So, the Yorktown would've been saved.
 
I don't know. If Lexington was saved, why wouldn't she have fought at Midway. Yorktown was more badly damaged but was jury-rigged enough to join TF-17. There were enough aircraft to form an air group for her. With a 4th carrier at Midway, it could make up for Commander Ring leading the Hornet's SBDs on the flight to nowhere. With Lexington's SBDs all 4 Japanese carriers could've been sunk in the morning attack, so the Hiryu wouldn't get off its strike on the Yorktown in the afternoon. So, the Yorktown would've been saved.
Before the explosion I think she was less damaged although I freely admit that I could very well be wrong there.
 
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I wonder if we could see a 'Warspite' like deep refits and/or the Japanese refits triggering a similar exercise in the USN battle line

I can see the Nevadas and subsequent 'Standards' benefitting from Small tube boilers even if not increasing power could free up 1000 odd tons or so

However there does not appear to have been much in the way of appetite in the US Government in seriously modernising the ships with congress historically quite stingy

How to change that? I dunno!
Well respectfully why spend all that money on the oldest battleships when they were building 6 fast battleships, and were projecting building 6 more? It made more sense to work backwards and update the Colorado's. They were newer, bigger, better protected, with more powerful guns. If you needed to fight an enemy battleship, would you rather have an up dated Colorado, or a Navada? Failing a Colorado, a Tennessee with 12 14" guns was a more powerful ship.
 
The big issue is how, Congress was often loathed to spend money on the armed forces in the inter-war era and prying more funding for very expensive refits for their battleships would be hard.
 
Refit of build new? By the time the Japanese are ready to play there are a couple of KGVs (more so with no European war) and NCs in the water. There is a lot of emotion tied up in refits, but if we are completely honest all the older ships served adequately and the WWI refits of the Standards was a complete waste of money.
Sorry to nitpick but there were always supposed to be 5 KGVs. After that they would build 4 Lion Class Battleships. The Lions were supposed to be followed by 4 modified Lion II Class. This would let the RN dispose of the R-Class Battleships. With the modernizations of the QE's, the Battlecruisers, and Nelson's would give the RN 23 Capital ships. Without war breaking out this should've been done probable by 1948-50. By then the QE's, and Nelson's might have gone to the breakers, leaving 16. The QE's would be very old, and the RN was never really happy with the gun turrets on the Nelson's, but they liked the BC's for their speed. It's hard to imagine so many battleships when you have carriers with jet fighters on deck.
 
The big issue is how, Congress was often loathed to spend money on the armed forces in the inter-war era and prying more funding for very expensive refits for their battleships would be hard.
That is true, however would they want the Japanese of all people to beat them? For the perspective of the time that would be a pretty bitter pill to swallow.
 
I don't know. If Lexington was saved, why wouldn't she have fought at Midway. Yorktown was more badly damaged but was jury-rigged enough to join TF-17. There were enough aircraft to form an air group for her. With a 4th carrier at Midway, it could make up for Commander Ring leading the Hornet's SBDs on the flight to nowhere. With Lexington's SBDs all 4 Japanese carriers could've been sunk in the morning attack, so the Hiryu wouldn't get off its strike on the Yorktown in the afternoon. So, the Yorktown would've been saved.
Before the explosion I think she was less damaged although I freely admit that I could very well be wrong there.
Lexington took 2 bombs and 2 torpedoes and was only able to resume a max speed of 24 knots before she blew up. Even if she did make it back to Pearl. Nimitz wouldn’t risk her in battle with that kind of damage. Besides, like Saratoga, she was due for an upgrade.

Saying that, her pilots and some of her aircraft are another matter. Have them split between Enterprise and Hornet. Spruance while a cruiser commander was a quick learner and won’t turn down an opportunity to learn how to conduct a carrier battle from pilots who fought the Japanese. On Hornet, if they bring up the coordination issues to Mitscher and how when Shokaku and Zuikaku were spotted at the same time. It might lead him to try and conform Hornet’s launch and strike to Enterprise’s. As well as keep a closer eye on Ring and Waldron. But that last bit is optimistic.
 
Lexington took 2 bombs and 2 torpedoes and was only able to resume a max speed of 24 knots before she blew up. Even if she did make it back to Pearl. Nimitz wouldn’t risk her in battle with that kind of damage. Besides, like Saratoga, she was due for an upgrade.

Saying that, her pilots and some of her aircraft are another matter. Have them split between Enterprise and Hornet. Spruance while a cruiser commander was a quick learner and won’t turn down an opportunity to learn how to conduct a carrier battle from pilots who fought the Japanese. On Hornet, if they bring up the coordination issues to Mitscher and how when Shokaku and Zuikaku were spotted at the same time. It might lead him to try and conform Hornet’s launch and strike to Enterprise’s. As well as keep a closer eye on Ring and Waldron. But that last bit is optimistic.
The damage to Lexington that reduced her speed was to a water main that could easily be repaired in the shipyard at Pearl Harbor. The bomb hits caused fires that were put out and didn't cause serious damage. The damage to the aviation fuel tanks would take a day or 2 to repair. All the fuel has to be pumped out, and the air cleared before welders could repair the tanks. If time didn't allow repair of the port tanks, she might have to sail without them, or with some makeshift tanks. There should be enough planes from the Saratoga group to bring her air group up to strength. Midway was an all-hands-on deck moment. From WiKi

The Japanese attack began at 11:13 as the carriers, stationed 3,000 yd (2,700 m) apart, and their escorts opened fire with anti-aircraft guns. The four torpedo planes which attacked Yorktown all missed. The remaining torpedo planes successfully employed a pincer attack on Lexington, which had a much larger turning radius than Yorktown, and, at 11:20, hit her with two Type 91 torpedoes. The first torpedo buckled the port aviation gasoline stowage tanks. Undetected, gasoline vapors spread into surrounding compartments. The second torpedo ruptured the port water main, reducing water pressure to the three forward firerooms and forcing the associated boilers to be shut down. The ship could still make 24 kn (28 mph; 44 km/h) with her remaining boilers. Four of the Japanese torpedo planes were shot down by anti-aircraft fire.[79]
 
The damage to Lexington that reduced her speed was to a water main that could easily be repaired in the shipyard at Pearl Harbor. The bomb hits caused fires that were put out and didn't cause serious damage. The damage to the aviation fuel tanks would take a day or 2 to repair. All the fuel has to be pumped out, and the air cleared before welders could repair the tanks. If time didn't allow repair of the port tanks, she might have to sail without them, or with some makeshift tanks. There should be enough planes from the Saratoga group to bring her air group up to strength. Midway was an all-hands-on deck moment. From WiKi

The Japanese attack began at 11:13 as the carriers, stationed 3,000 yd (2,700 m) apart, and their escorts opened fire with anti-aircraft guns. The four torpedo planes which attacked Yorktown all missed. The remaining torpedo planes successfully employed a pincer attack on Lexington, which had a much larger turning radius than Yorktown, and, at 11:20, hit her with two Type 91 torpedoes. The first torpedo buckled the port aviation gasoline stowage tanks. Undetected, gasoline vapors spread into surrounding compartments. The second torpedo ruptured the port water main, reducing water pressure to the three forward firerooms and forcing the associated boilers to be shut down. The ship could still make 24 kn (28 mph; 44 km/h) with her remaining boilers. Four of the Japanese torpedo planes were shot down by anti-aircraft fire.[79]
Except for the issue that Torpedoes hit the ship underwater. Without a way to patch the holes. The other internal repairs won’t hold and flooding would increase.
 
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