WI: Ludendorff Killed/Dies on Armistice Day, 1918

Scherzo

This is inspired by the rather zany penultimate battle of Wonder Woman, wherein she slays a super-powered General Ludendorff (!!!), believing him to be Hades in disguise. Obviously, if I were doing that premise it'd land this in ASB territory, but I was thinking what the repercussions would be if, for some other reason, Ludendorff were to drop dead on that day.

Immediately what comes to mind is his rather major involvement in the Nazi Beer Hall Putsch in Munich in 1923; it probably wouldn't have even gotten off the ground without his backing, which means it's likely Hitler would've remained a rather marginal figure in Bavarian politics. I'm also curious if him not being around to spread the 'stabbed in the back' myth would have much impact, but my gut feeling is there were enough disgruntled Freikorps for something similar to develop. Finally, I'm curious how it would've affected the treaty negotiations. I honestly don't know much nitty gritty about how Versailles operated, if the German Military establishment had any meaningful say at all, but I figured the absence of a towering figure such as Ludendorff would probably have been felt.

I honestly should've posted this thread 2 years ago when the movie first came out, but I'm still curious if y'all have any thoughts on it.
 
Cymraeg

Cymraeg

Well, a dead Ludendorff means that the most demented advocate of the Stab-in-the-Back nonsense is removed from the political board. Yes, you're right, there will still be those who push the nonsense, but Ludendorff had a certain amount of influence. And yes, no attempted Munich coup, so Hitler remains a minor local would-be politician.
 

Scherzo

Galba Otho Vitelius said:
Wonder Woman also shows Ludendorff murdering the general staff, which maybe is a more interesting POD.
Click to expand...
I mean if we're indulging Wonder Woman 2017, I think him deploying the chemical weapons to stop the German Revolution would probably make more sense than against the Entente.

I forget, was there a Hindenburg portrayed in the Staff (I know he's mentioned earlier in the movie as advocating a ceasefire)? I thought it was just like 'generic German officers'.
 
Mad Bad Rabbit

Mad Bad Rabbit

Yes and h
Scherzo said:
I forget, was there a Hindenburg portrayed in the Staff (I know he's mentioned earlier in the movie as advocating a ceasefire)?
Click to expand...

Yes and he was killed by the poison whatever. So the rise of the Nazis and WWII as we know it are definitely going to be butterflied away.
 

Deleted member 94680

Wasn’t it Hindenburg that properly publicised the phrase “stab in the back” (Dolchstoßlegende) at his hearing for the 1919 Committee of Inquiry?

As for Lundendorff in Wonder Woman, why make it him? Why not have it as “generic German general”? I thought it was a strange decision when the real Ludendorff so obviously lived many years longer.
 

TRH

Stenz said:
As for Lundendorff in Wonder Woman, why make it him? Why not have it as “generic German general”? I thought it was a strange decision when the real Ludendorff so obviously lived many years longer.
Click to expand...

On the one hand, his subsequent support for the Nazis means nobody will really complain about him being demonized. On the other, they didn't even put in the most minimal effort to make the guy resemble the actual Ludendorff visually, so I dunno.
 

Deleted member 94680

TRH said:
On the one hand, his subsequent support for the Nazis means nobody will really complain about him being demonized. On the other, they didn't even put in the most minimal effort to make the guy resemble the actual Ludendorff visually, so I dunno.
Click to expand...

Fair point I suppose. It seems strange with the storyline (secretive weapons being developed, sneaking around all over the world to Turkey etc and murdering what I assume is supposed to be OHL - although why that as well?) a “we never heard of him, because Wonder Woman stopped his evil” type character would be better suited to the role.

I suppose this makes WW an alternate reality doesn’t it?
 

TRH

Stenz said:
Fair point I suppose. It seems strange with the storyline (secretive weapons being developed, sneaking around all over the world to Turkey etc and murdering what I assume is supposed to be OHL - although why that as well?) a “we never heard of him, because Wonder Woman stopped his evil” type character would be better suited to the role.

I suppose this makes WW an alternate reality doesn’t it?
Click to expand...

Well, as a world full of metahumans, how could it not be?

That said, even though I'm normally the guy arguing that the Dolchestobelegende can't be killed as easily as people here tend to assume, having all the top generals murder each other over whether or not to make peace really seems like it'd do the trick. So there should not have been successful Nazis afterwards.
 

bpbruce

Ludendorf was responsible for pulling troops out of cities liable to be taken over by German communists, waiting til the communists stuck their necks out and seized power, then having them killed by deniable Friekorps. If he dies in 1918, maybe Rosa Luxemburg lives.
 

NoMommsen

@bpbruce ... only that 'brave' Erich fled rather cowardly under disguise and with the help of his brother and against even the pleas of his wife to Sweden just after the November revolution began.

He had nothing to do with and during the revolution at all and when Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht were killed he began already becomming an 'unwanted' person within Sweden.
 

marktaha

Banned
NoMommsen said:
@bpbruce ... only that 'brave' Erich fled rather cowardly under disguise and with the help of his brother and against even the pleas of his wife to Sweden just after the November revolution began.

He had nothing to do with and during the revolution at all and when Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht were killed he began already becomming an 'unwanted' person within Sweden.
Click to expand...
I believe he had a nervous breakdown-hardly surprisingly. What if he'd had the sense to follow Brest-Litovsk with an offer to make peace in the West by withdrawing from France and Belgium?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top