WI: Later/No European-American Contact

[VictorLaszlo]

Saint Brendan really makes it to America and lands in Yucatan. With the permission of a local ruler he and the other monks found a monestary and are finally successful in converting the local ruler's successor to christianity. This ruler turns into a mesoamerican Charlemagne and conquers at first other mayan city states and finally even Teotihuacan, where he sets up his new capital. When the question of a common admistrative language for the new empire comes up, Saint Brandan's successor proposes Latin, because it is not only neutral and has a fully developped script, it is the liturgic language of the new empire's state religion as well.

Since especially monastic christianity is a rather peaceful religion when compared to the different mesoamerican cults demanding human sacrifices it is readily accepted by the conquered peoples, and while some syncretism is inevitable, it is accepted by Saint Brendan's successors for the greater good of the conversion effort.

When the first Europeans arrive in the Americas nearly a thousand years later they discover a christian society speaking a romanised Nahuan, written in the irish version of Latin script and practicing a form of christianity, that, while different from both Catholic and Orthodox, is still recognisable. Since they expect to have landed in India they of course assume to have found the empire of Prester John, which they do not conquer but only trade with.

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

Before I get around to commenting on the implausibility of it all (you could say it's, I dunno, ASB...), I have to ask, why are they speaking Nahuatl? Man, I know I've referred to this trend often in the past as a big cliche, but I didn't know it'd be this persistent.

 

[altwere]

why that obvious. the last group of the Chichimic who sweep down into the Vally of Mexico speak Nahuat'l. They conquer the area around lake texcoco and are tricked into converting by a monk named Chimallicoyot'l.
Sorry I just could help myself.

 

[Municipal Engines]

I remember reading somewhere that there was a massive die-off just before the Europeans arrived and Europe colonised what was basically a post-apocalyptic land with a small fraction of the previous millions surviving.

I can't link any sources on that, however, so it was possible the author of the article was bullshitting. Pre-Columbian American history is not my forte.

 

[Zersk]

Municipal: The massive die-off was from European contact. The first Europeans in a region's records of that area would say it was crowded with villages and so on, only for the next set of Europeans to find it abandoned. The population estimates for pre-Columbian America vary, but reach up to 100 million for North America alone. Death toll of the disease estimate up to 95% of North America.

Everyone else: Hmm, interesting. So even if it doesn't seem very plausible, given more time, how would the American civilizations develop, with things like farming becoming more and more popular in the Mississippi and such?

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Wouldn't it help to American Natives if Americas were discovered by Asians? Colonisation from Pacific coast is more difficult than from Atlantic one. High mountains and deserts could delay asian expansion, giving Amerindians east of Rockies enough time to recover from diseases and adapt some inventions from invaders.

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

Everyone else: Hmm, interesting. So even if it doesn't seem very plausible, given more time, how would the American civilizations develop, with things like farming becoming more and more popular in the Mississippi and such?

I'm pretty sure they already were farmers. Along with the Northeast. And even the Plains people were farmers to some degree before horses were introduced.

 

[historyfelon]

Unified Theory

Just for fun..try this: Take jycee's early Viking contact, which leads to a adjustment on the part of the Native Americans in the area of the present day eastern US and Canada..add to that VictorLaszlo's Saint Brendan scenario creating a Latinized culture throughout central America, Mexico..and perhaps stretching into the southern US...and finish with Svetonius's Asian colonization of the Pacific coast.

I don't think we're in Kansas anymore....

 

[Umbral]

What if European contact with America came later, or not at all?

Europe, by which I mean monks and traders, in a general fashion knew about America since the Vikings. There was trade, a big expedition in the 1360s etc. Europe just wasn't very interested. America was percieved to be a large island broadly similar to Northern Russia and Siberia. Hostile natives and no real draws that those places didn't produce, and much more accessibly at that. When Colombus landed, he had a vested interest in finding gold, and he published enormously exaggregated accounts of the little he found. To be honest, I think rather than keeping America unknown, it is much more realistic to keep it uninteresting for a while. Maybe a change in church doctrine keeps fish less valuable, so fishermen are less motivated for huge voyages. European occasionally land in Brazil and Newfoundland, but there is no gold rush.

 

[Daylight Savings]

Europe, by which I mean monks and traders, in a general fashion knew about America since the Vikings. There was trade, a big expedition in the 1360s etc. Europe just wasn't very interested. America was percieved to be a large island broadly similar to Northern Russia and Siberia. Hostile natives and no real draws that those places didn't produce, and much more accessibly at that. When Colombus landed, he had a vested interest in finding gold, and he published enormously exaggregated accounts of the little he found. To be honest, I think rather than keeping America unknown, it is much more realistic to keep it uninteresting for a while. Maybe a change in church doctrine keeps fish less valuable, so fishermen are less motivated for huge voyages. European occasionally land in Brazil and Newfoundland, but there is no gold rush.

Well the Caribbean was not overly impressive. What if Columbus's crew mutinied when they got there and went home to report that 'that idiot' dragged us halfway around the world for nothing.' It could easily delay trips to the area for some time. In the meantime the Portuguese still find Brazil and again are not overly impressed. Colonization is slowed significantly. And focus remains to the east, with wars being fought for control of the African coastline for outposts on the journey to India.