WI Kerensky surrendered

If Kerensky had made peace with the Central Powers it is possible that the Russian Army would have remained in tack and have been less radicalized. The ending of the war would allow him to carry out reforms and undermine the extreme left. It is possible that the 2nd revolution would have been crushed and Russia might have become more of a democratic state rather than a communist one.

The ending of the war earlier would have allowed both Germany and Austria-Hungary to shift forces to the west. It is a good possibility that Italy could have been knocked out of the war. Leading to a possible peace settlement.

The situations was so volatile, that Lenin’s party could come from nowhere and quickly gain mass support, and even If Kerensky signs a ''bitter peace'' his goverment still be almost completely ineffectual also Kerensky was never a strong leader.

Russia so riven by factional rivalry and ethnic tensions as well a host of war related problems that civil war is pretty much inevitable by 1917. Kerensky will be toppled by someone it's a matter of who & when.
 
Query might Kerensky have got better terms out of the Central Powers in the Spring of 1917 than Trotsky got in early 1918.

Most certainly. Trotsky could in fact have got better terms in early 1918 himself. In the spring of '17, I think the Germans would eaily have been content with the military frontline (Poland, Lithuania, Courland as German puppet states). The Ottomans might also have received Batum and Kars, but I think that would pretty much be it.
 
Most certainly. Trotsky could in fact have got better terms in early 1918 himself. In the spring of '17, I think the Germans would eaily have been content with the military frontline (Poland, Lithuania, Courland as German puppet states). The Ottomans might also have received Batum and Kars, but I think that would pretty much be it.

Eh? I'm not so sure the Germans had long standing designs on Ukraine, Belarus & the Baltics, ideas of a''drang nach ost'' had a lot of support and the Kaiser's men kept it up OTL even when Germany faced utter ruin on the Western Front.

Doyou think Kerensky can survive such an outcome? I dont even milder surrender terms is the death blow for him...
 
Eh? I'm not so sure the Germans had long standing designs on Ukraine, Belarus & the Baltics, ideas of a''drang nach ost'' had a lot of support and the Kaiser's men kept it up OTL even when Germany faced utter ruin on the Western Front.

Belarus? Chortle. Pretty much everybody considered Belarus an integral part of Russia, including the Russians, the Germans, and the Belarusians. Almost nobody would have thought about detaching it from Russia before the war. Ukraine is the same, but less, and while German nationalism did have a fascination with Estonia and Latvia, they were not occupied in 1917, and Russia was unlikely to give away provinces so vital to the security of its capital from any decent negotiating position.

That was what Russia lacked at B-L. What had already happened was that Trotsky, for reasons which I myself do not fully understand, had walked out of talks where the Germans offered much the peace I describe, adapted to a military situation that had turned further against Russia and ordered his forces not to resist the Germans in any serious capacity. The Germans had then advanced recklessly, since no-one was stopping them, and so occupied Latvia, Estonia, and much of Ukraine and Belarus. There they ran into provisional governments (run of the mill Radas with strong regionalist parties in the Slav lands, local German councils in the Baltic) who were willing to sign deals with them to escape from the looming Red Army, who had already captured Kiev, from which the Germans expelled them. Trotsky eventually had to sign a peace treaty which put a stamp on the new situation on the ground by rneouncing sovereignty over those area sthat Germany had occupied and installed puppet governments over. The whole thing was rather bizarre and flukish and certainly not a long-contemplating German scheme.

Who were the "Kaiser's men" anyway? In fact, the Kaiser was the general's man, and the generals were throughly pragmatic and had no interest in continuing the war in the east for a reason that was ideological rather than strategic.

And how did they "keep it up" when Germany "faced utter ruin"? The German army disintegrated after Brest-Litovsk. It was the end of the war in the east which set the stage for Germany's last throw of the dice in the west, and her subsequent collapse.
 
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