WI: JSC was located in Tampa?

Workable Goblin

Workable Goblin

A little tidbit I found out while researching things for a certain comment thread in Chat:

By [September 1961], the site selection team had identified MacDill Air Force Base at Tampa, Florida, as the preferred site [for the MSFC], largely because the Air Force planned to close down its Strategic Air Command operations at that base. A Houston site offered by Rice University was second, and the Benicia Ordnance Depot in the San Francisco Bay Area was third. Before a decision could be made, however, the Air Force decided not to close MacDill, omitting it from consideration.
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Suppose, instead, that the Air Force does go ahead and close MacDill, meaning that the MSFC is located in Tampa instead of in Houston. What happens?
 

Major Major

People are disappointed to find out that Stones Hill is actually a flat place with sinkholes. Sales of From the Earth to the Moon decline dramatically.
:p
 
Workable Goblin

Workable Goblin

Major Major said:
People are disappointed to find out that Stones Hill is actually a flat place with sinkholes. Sales of From the Earth to the Moon decline dramatically.
:p
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Hah hah.

No, but seriously, you've concentrated most of NASA into just two states--Florida (KSC and MSFC) and California (JPL, Ames, and Dryden). This will surely have an effect on how broadly-based support for NASA is elsewhere, and therefore how many advocates they will have in Congress and therefore what their funding level is.
 

jlckansas

Your forgetting the big dog in the fight for Houston and thats LBJ. Even as VP he understood how congress and government worked and he wanted to bring something to Texas so he could show off. Eliminate him having any say in the matter and Tampa would have a better chance.
 

Swan Station

Hold on, there's a difference between the JSC (Johnson Space Center, Houston) and the MSFC (Marshall Space Flight Center, Alabama). Which one are you actually talking about?
 
Workable Goblin

Workable Goblin

Swan Station said:
Hold on, there's a difference between the JSC (Johnson Space Center, Houston) and the MSFC (Marshall Space Flight Center, Alabama). Which one are you actually talking about?
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Er, I know that (space nut, right? I've even been to Marshall). I was referring to the Manned SpaceFlight Center. Sometimes called MSC, sometimes MSFC. Later called Johnson, to remove any doubt. I thought the references to Houston would make it clear, but I suppose not.

jlckansas said:
Your forgetting the big dog in the fight for Houston and thats LBJ. Even as VP he understood how congress and government worked and he wanted to bring something to Texas so he could show off. Eliminate him having any say in the matter and Tampa would have a better chance.
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He was VP...in an administration where the President (and Attorney General) really didn't like him. That alone negated a lot of his theoretical power (which is, after all, small). As far as I can tell, while Houston might have ended up in the 2nd place due to politics, that was motivated by where the chairman of the House Appropriations Committee was, not by LBJ directly. And the selection of Houston over Tampa was, as the passage quoted indicates, due solely to what SAC did (or didn't do).

If you want a politically motivated decision, you should look at the selection of North American over Martin for building Apollo. That was ruled by politics. I think people overstate how much of a role politics played in what NASA did and where it did it, simply because of common perceptions (pork) and the political capabilities of Johnson.
 

NothingNow

Banned
truth is life said:
Suppose, instead, that the Air Force does go ahead and close MacDill, meaning that the MSFC is located in Tampa instead of in Houston. What happens?
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Massive funding boosts to Tampa, and the city builds itself more around the Aerospace industry. (Meaning L-M, Boeing et al have much larger facilities here.) Tampa Bay probably becomes the Economically Dominant Metro area in the state by the end of the 70's. (Seriously, an expanded Aerospace industry, bringing Civil service wages, plus OTL's Defense stuff, Phosphate Mining and everything else = Regional Economic Titan.)

Of course, there'd be less political support for NASA, since only Florida, California and Alabama would be directly involved. Of course, if Texas were to get the Marshall Space Flight Center instead of Alabama, things would be different.

EDIT: Incidentally, in the ensuing land boom, A lot of Pinellas County's old Families are going to get very rich, and there's going to be a lot of long term and short term Ecological damage (Mangroves being cut down, Swamps being filled, The Hammock being cut back, et cetera.) Unfortunately, said development might cause the Tampa Bay Estuary to slowly die.
EDIT2: TIA is going to grow fast as well. It probably won't be the Second Best on earth however. (IOTL, TIA placed 2nd world wide in a Condé Nast Traveler rating in 2008.)
 
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Workable Goblin

Workable Goblin

NothingNow said:
Of course, there'd be less political support for NASA, since only Florida, California and Alabama would be directly involved. Of course, if Texas were to get the Marshall Space Flight Center instead of Alabama, things would be different.
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Marshall had already been located in Huntsville by 1960. Actually, I think the Germans were stuck there in the '40s...
 

jlckansas

Johnson knew how to get legislation passed. If the Kennedy's marginalized him with this when he wanted to get something for Texas they would end up loosing the battle. Sam Rayburn was still the Speaker of the House at this time and he was the one who wanted LBJ to take the VP slot and would also be another person that would want something for Texas. The Southern democrats controlled the House and Senate at this time and there would be a fight on there hands if they thought one of their own was getting short changed.
 

Swan Station

truth is life said:
Er, I know that (space nut, right? I've even been to Marshall). I was referring to the Manned SpaceFlight Center. Sometimes called MSC, sometimes MSFC. Later called Johnson, to remove any doubt. I thought the references to Houston would make it clear, but I suppose not.
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And that proves how much of a space nut you are compared to me. :) I had no idea JSC was once called the MSFC. Makes sense, it'd have to have been called something else before Johnson left office.
 
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