WI: JFK killed by a Klansman instead of Oswald

Worffan101

Worffan101

What would be the likely consequences of JFK being assassinated by a white supremacist opposed to JFK's attempts to pass a civil rights act, rather than Lee Harvey Oswald?

Obviously I think there would be a more rapid shift to a pro-civil-rights position in the North, but would the South be forced to back down from segregation as a result of this?
 

Scorpius72

Worffan101 said:
What would be the likely consequences of JFK being assassinated by a white supremacist opposed to JFK's attempts to pass a civil rights act, rather than Lee Harvey Oswald?
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The entire US federal government would jump on the Klan like a proverbial ton of bricks and it would be open season on the KKK also it would be an excuse for J. Edgar Hoover to take off the gloves when dealing with the KKK (He really, REALLY despised them and if I understand correctly, he may've had some black ancestry which would help explain his hatred for the Klan). Also it would be open season in Hollywood to demonise them (Well, really just amp up how Hollywood was already portraying them as a bunch of racist thugs in their films).
 
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AltoRegnant

AltoRegnant

I could see this vindicating militant civil rights activists. If the supportive but politically limited and by the book Kennedy was killed for this, how much of a chance do pacifists like MLK and co have?
 

overoceans

Maponus said:
Conspiracy theories about the assassination become (even more) popular with the far-right.
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When you say "even more", do you mean they're popular with the far-right IOTL? I honestly can't think of many Kennedy assassination theories that ARE right-wing in their viewpoint. Most of the ones I know are left-wing in a vague sort of way(eg. Kennedy was killed by the CIA in order to keep troops in Vietnam), or at most, right-wing but in a manner that we would now call anti-globalist(eg. Kennedy was killed by the Illuminati), which wasn't at that time really the standard conservative viewpoint, and actually transfers quite easily to the weirder sections of the left.

(Interestingly, the theory that he was killed by the Soviets or other Communists never really took off, even on the right.)

But I agree, if the primary suspect was a klansman, the lost-causers would be embracing every conspiracy-theory on offer to blame someone else. If Johnson turns out to be as progressive on civil-rights as he was IOTL, the popular theory would probably be that Kennedy was holding back on integration, so the Jews and LBJ had him killed in order to force mongrelization on America, and framed an innocent "white patriot" for the crime.
 
the Imperium of Canada

the Imperium of Canada

overoceans said:
When you say "even more", do you mean they're popular with the far-right IOTL? I honestly can't think of many Kennedy assassination theories that ARE right-wing in their viewpoint. Most of the ones I know are left-wing in a vague sort of way(eg. Kennedy was killed by the CIA in order to keep troops in Vietnam), or at most, right-wing but in a manner that we would now call anti-globalist(eg. Kennedy was killed by the Illuminati), which wasn't at that time really the standard conservative viewpoint, and actually transfers quite easily to the weirder sections of the left.

(Interestingly, the theory that he was killed by the Soviets or other Communists never really took off, even on the right.)

But I agree, if the primary suspect was a klansman, the lost-causers would be embracing every conspiracy-theory on offer to blame someone else. If Johnson turns out to be as progressive on civil-rights as he was IOTL, the popular theory would probably be that Kennedy was holding back on integration, so the Jews and LBJ had him killed in order to force mongrelization on America, and framed an innocent "white patriot" for the crime.
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Not to get too far into modern politics, but weird-ass veneration of the Kennedys seems to often be a part of the batshit esoteric far-right.
 

peeter

It would give LBJ even more political capital for civil rights and maybe able to put voting rights in the civil rights act of 64
 

overoceans

the Imperium of Canada said:
Not to get too far into modern politics, but weird-ass veneration of the Kennedys seems to often be a part of the batshit esoteric far-right.
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Interesting. If it doesn't drag you into current news, I'd be interested to hear the names of some of these right-wingers, since I'm not sure if I've noticed that trend.

I do remember stuff like, when Iran-Contra first broke, Pat Buchanan writing that it was nothing that needs to be investigated, and that "JFK didn't order an investigation into the Bay Of Pigs", IOW Kennedy was the kinda macho leader who doesn't listen to critical sniping. But I always thought that had to do with venerating any president who ruled long enough ago to be venerated now, eg. everyone now lauds FDR.
 

Scorpius72

peeter said:
maybe able to put voting rights in the civil rights act of 64
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Perhaps even political capital to make some constitutional amendments such as modifying the 13th amendment to get rid of a certain sentence (I can't find it in the wiki article on the 13th amendment) that enabled the use of penal labour. I'm talking about the laws instituted in the South after the ACW to help keep down the local Blacks.

Edit: Also modify the 14th amendment to make voting an absolute right, this would have the effect of not only preventing convicts being stripped of the right to vote but also render unconstitutional voter-suppression laws (There were certainly plenty of them in the Jim Crow laws).
 
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LegionoftheUnitedStates

Despite JFK being shot by a communist sympathizer, even in OTL there was a persistent myth about right-wing hostility to JFK in Dallas being responsible for his death. Usually citing an anti-JFK hand bill. (The City of Hate) This despite the massive pro JFK crowds that day.

Not to say there were not people and organizations in Dallas who hated JFK, but they had nothing to do with the assassination.

If a Klansman were to shoot him, you would see more of this.
 
Tabs

Tabs

Well, the Klan is going bye-bye, first and foremost. Shooting the US President would be akin to pouring gas on themselves, and handing somebody a match. They’ll be deemed a terrorist organization and destroyed.

I think it would give more radical figures in the civil rights movement credence. However, it would also increase support for civil rights, I think-a racist, far-right group just shot the president, some people would change their views as a response-, though the stiff resistance in the south would continue. I think this could lead to LBJ pushing through more civil rights legislation, as well.

Beyond that-far right groups are going to be monitored much more, at least in the short term. So it may shrink far-right terrorism by a lot.
 

Hugh Third of Five

Scorpius72 said:
Perhaps even political capital to make some constitutional amendments such as modifying the 13th amendment to get rid of a certain sentence (I can't find it in the wiki article on the 13th amendment) that enabled the use of penal labour. I'm talking about the laws instituted in the South after the ACW to help keep down the local Blacks.

Edit: Also modify the 14th amendment to make voting an absolute right, this would have the effect of not only preventing convicts being stripped of the right to vote but also render unconstitutional voter-suppression laws (There were certainly plenty of them in the Jim Crow laws).
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There wasn't a big push in the 60s to get rid of penal labor. Even if there was an uproar about prison labor, it would focus on reform rather than abolition. As for voting rights, they did get the 24th amendment passed, outlawing poll taxes. There wasn't really a big push at the time for restoring the voting rights of felons. The civil rights movement would progress faster, but it's going to end up at roughly the same destination as OTL.

There are other potential butterflies from this though. The segregationists loved using the filibuster to block legislation. That could be seriously curtailed, though I don't think it would be eliminated. It's also possible that with there political position weakened, they wouldn't be able to block Birch Bayh's amendment to elect presidents by popular vote.
 

Scorpius72

Hugh Third of Five said:
As for voting rights, they did get the 24th amendment passed, outlawing poll taxes.
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However if the modification of the 14th amendment to make the right to vote absolute would negate the need for a 24th amendment as any poll-tax would be unconstitutional on the grounds it interferes with the right to vote.

Hugh Third of Five said:
There wasn't really a big push at the time for restoring the voting rights of felons.
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The proposed 14th amendment modification would automatically render unconstitutional any law stripping a convict's voting rights.
 

Danthefan28

Well that Klansman just shot himself in the foot.

Not only will that only embolden the Civil Rights Movement, and may even pass the amendment faster but he'll bring the FBI and Hoover down on him and the rest of the Klan.
 

Insane Ranter

Scorpius72 said:
Perhaps even political capital to make some constitutional amendments such as modifying the 13th amendment to get rid of a certain sentence (I can't find it in the wiki article on the 13th amendment) that enabled the use of penal labour. I'm talking about the laws instituted in the South after the ACW to help keep down the local Blacks.

Edit: Also modify the 14th amendment to make voting an absolute right, this would have the effect of not only preventing convicts being stripped of the right to vote but also render unconstitutional voter-suppression laws (There were certainly plenty of them in the Jim Crow laws).
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Do you mean the bold/underlined part?
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Could the Klan just disavow Oswald as a crackpot or something?
 

LegionoftheUnitedStates

overoceans said:
The Wanted For Treason flyer. While it was not particularly outrageous by the standards of political rhetoric, I have to think that things got a little uncomfortable for the creators shortly after 12:30 PM Nov. 22.
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No doubt, but I have seen it repeatedly cited as a reason Dallas was a dangerous city for JFK to visit.

In reality it had nothing to do with the assassination.
 
Mooze17

Mooze17

overoceans said:
Interesting. If it doesn't drag you into current news, I'd be interested to hear the names of some of these right-wingers, since I'm not sure if I've noticed that trend.

I do remember stuff like, when Iran-Contra first broke, Pat Buchanan writing that it was nothing that needs to be investigated, and that "JFK didn't order an investigation into the Bay Of Pigs", IOW Kennedy was the kinda macho leader who doesn't listen to critical sniping. But I always thought that had to do with venerating any president who ruled long enough ago to be venerated now, eg. everyone now lauds FDR.
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It’s largely a subset of Qanon really, they think Kennedy is gonna rise from the dead to aid them or faked the assassination or some shit like that. Qanon is basically an amalgamation of a million other conspiracy theories so it’s not suprising some weird shit not necessarily typical of the entire far right gets mixed in.
 
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