WI: James II's Second Son?

[JonasResende]

On September 11 1689 the Queen of England was brought to bed at the palace of Saint-Germain and delivered of a stillborn daughter. Now, I was always under the impression that Louisa Maria Therese "La Consolatrice" was the only child of James II born in exile, but recently came across this tidbit of information. While the source is not one hundred percent on it (the genealogy speaks of Louise Diane d'Orléans as being called Élisabeth Françoise, and José I of Portugal is called Manuel; or that Louis, duc d'Orléans was engaged/married to Élisabeth Thérèse de Lorraine after the death of his first wife), I thought it'd be a fun exercise.

Say Mary of Modena had been delivered of a second son - a duke of York - while in exile. On the one hand, this is proof that James Francis Edward isn't so suppositious a baby as claimed, but on the other, I'm pretty sure the Protestant propaganda machine in London will be screaming that it's the child of Mary of Modena with a page/papal nuncio/father confessor/whatever.

On the face of it, it presumably doesn't change much (for now). But it does make for interesting thought. Especially if this boy is perhaps less religiously obnoxious than James II/III, and manages to make his brother "see" that London is worth perhaps soft-pedalling the whole Catholic thing?

 

[jb3]

Louisa was never acknowledged by anyone in Britain until she died (literally according to the historical record it is only when the French Ambassador told Queen Anne of her half-sister's death that Anne acknowledged said half-sister even existed - although everyone did know) and NO ONE disputed Louisa's paternity or that she was Mary of Modena's child (also Mary of Modena's pious reputation - the French regarded as a near saint - was such that no Protestant court would give credence to her having a child by anyone else). It is hard to see how a second son would be treated any differently.

 

[Nmale]

No matter what I’m pretty sure James III was set in his ways. His fathers last words to him on his deathbed in 1701 were keep your religion. If the Duke of York is less flexible on religion and more like his uncle than I’m pretty sure his parents would be devestated. As for the role he might play I’m not yet sure but I might have some ideas.

 

[The_Last_Plantagenet]

What would the Duke of York be called? I'm imagining a name in honour of Mary's father, as well as that of the Stuarts. Perhaps the name Alphonse James Stuart?
And if said son is more similar to Charles II than his father religiously, then perhaps the Jacobite revolts could be more successful.

 

[JonasResende]

NO ONE disputed Louisa's paternity or that she was Mary of Modena's child (also Mary of Modena's pious reputation - the French regarded as a near saint - was such that no Protestant court would give credence to her having a child by anyone else)

a) Louisa is a girl, so even if legitimate, would still be behind Mary II and Anne in the succession.
b) Mary of Modena didn't suddenly become this near-saint when she arrived in France, she was that in England, too. There were the rumours that she was carrying on with the papal nuncio, her confessor and any passing page (both while she was in London before 1688 and after she was exiled as well IIRC). I'm not sure anyone ever cast aspersions on the paternity of JFES per se (I guess the warming pan story of him being a changeling had more oomph), but the rumours were there.

No matter what I’m pretty sure James III was set in his ways. His fathers last words to him on his deathbed in 1701 were keep your religion. If the Duke of York is less flexible on religion and more like his uncle than I’m pretty sure his parents would be devestated. As for the role he might play I’m not yet sure but I might have some ideas.

His parents? Or just his dad? His dad was rigidly Catholic, that even the French despaired of him. The joke at Versailles ran "there goes a good man, who exchanged three kingdoms for a mass". Mom (despite originally wanting to be a nun) was more "flexible". James II had drawn up a timetable for his son with nearly forty rules that "would've prevented him having any enjoyment in life". For instance, he wasn't allowed to run into corners, or whisper with his friends, or for some reason, learn music. As soon as she was out of mourning, Mary of Modena scrapped most of that. Mary of Modena, while being part of Maintenon's circle, and spending time at Chaillot, may have been Catholic, but her children would've grown up alongside the grandsons of Louis XIV and Adélaïde de Savoie. Adélaïde had Jansenist sympathies, Berri few religious convictions (if any), Bourgogne was led by the party of dévots (and Adélaïde used to joke that she hoped to die first so her husband could marry a nun), not to mention, at the French court the other two main figures - the duc d'Orléans and Liselotte - were a sarcastic atheist and a probably asexual agnostic. Ergo, there's a lot of place for the duke of York to pick up any and all strains of religion in the Versailles hothouse.

What would the Duke of York be called? I'm imagining a name in honour of Mary's father, as well as that of the Stuarts. Perhaps the name Alphonse James Stuart?
And if said son is more similar to Charles II than his father religiously, then perhaps the Jacobite revolts could be more successful.

While Alphonse might work, it's only been used once (for Edward I's son who died young) and might be perceived as too foreign (besides, JFES already has his second name from Mary's brother). Louisa Maria Therese was named for her godfather - King Louis XIV - AFAIK, but I could imagine that in such a case, calling the kid Louis/Lewis, duke of York would be enough of a reason (besides his Catholicism) for Englishmen to reject him. That said, I figure Charles is a possibility, as is Henry. Maybe get the duchesse d'Orléans to stand godmother? She did for their elder daughter, (I think it was the Lady Isabella) so it's not unthinkable. Even Louis XIV would understand the political realities of why he's being passed over for the job.

 

[Nmale]

While Alphonse might work, it's only been used once (for Edward I's son who died young) and might be perceived as too foreign (besides, JFES already has his second name from Mary's brother).

If they are going to choose Alphonse now would not be a good time. Like you said it is way to foreign sounding, not what you should name your child in exile. I can see them naming him Charles obviously after his uncle and grandfather, or Henry after his uncle, a staunch Protestant who died young. Does anyone have any idea of what role he might play in the Jacobite cause. I’m actually very interested to hear. And to answer your first claim, Mary of Modena was as Catholic as her husband. I read in King Over the Water that when she heard there were offers made for her son to turn Anglican, that she became quite enraged.

 

[JonasResende]

I read in King Over the Water that when she heard there were offers made for her son to turn Anglican, that she became quite enraged.

The whole "I will not gain him an earthly crown for the loss of a heavenly one" argument? Fair enough. I don't say her son will go full-bore Low Church Protestant (that seems unlikely), but Jansenist sympathizer (either he and/or James III) could likewise be fun. I'm not sure if Jansenist would translate as better/worse to the Anglicans, though