WI: Edward IV dies at the Battle of Towton?

[iMercadier]

Say Edward IV dies at the Battle of Towton, the Yorkists still emerging as the overall victors. Then say that the fourth son of Richard of York, William (b. 1447), survives infancy and succeeds him. What happens?

As a point of clarification, everything aside from William of York's survival occurs as it did OTL, up until the Battle of Towton. That's where the timeline begins.

 

[isabella]

Say Edward IV dies at the Battle of Towton, the Yorkists still emerging as the overall victors. Then say that the fourth son of Richard of York, William (b. 1447), survives infancy and succeeds him. What happens?

Most likely Warwick will take full power in name of the young King and rule England for him and marrying him to Bona of Savoy (and engaging his own daughters to William’s younger brothers)...

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

That's two PoDs. And if William is alive in 1461 (he'd be 14) instead of dying in 1447, butterflies disrupt the events of the next 14 years. That would include the births of the five youngest York children (including George and Richard) and the deaths of the Duke and Edmund of Rutland at Wakefield. So there would not be a battle of Towton.

 

[Tyler96]

Yeah, with a kid on the throne you'd imagine Warwick will be firmly ensconced in power for a while.

 

[BlueFlowwer]

What happens to George and Richard? Do they also die?

 

[CaptainShadow]

If the POD is in ~1447, Towton, Wakefield, St.
Albans, Tewkesbury et al are all butterflied away.


Richard of York might become king, or Rutland might survive to become king.

Unless you're not having any of the butterflies affect the world till Towton, which I think is the case here.

If that's happening, Warwick becomes regent, William is probably married to someone french (maybe Bona of Savoy) George is definitely married to Isabel, not sure if Richard and Anne would still be married tho, William's regency would only last for 3 years, in which case, he'll prevent a double Neville match.

Scratch that, he might not even be married to Bona, negotiations take some time, assuming he's like his elder brother, he'll favor a Burgundian of Breton match, but I don't think there's anyone age appropriate, in which case I'd suggest looking to Iberia, not sure if there's anyone age appropriate there either.

 

[isabella]

If the POD is in ~1447, Towton, Wakefield, St.
Albans, Tewkesbury et al are all butterflied away.


Richard of York might become king, or Rutland might survive to become king.

Unless you're not having any of the butterflies affect the world till Towton, which I think is the case here.

If that's happening, Warwick becomes regent, William is probably married to someone french (maybe Bona of Savoy) George is definitely married to Isabel, not sure if Richard and Anne would still be married tho, William's regency would only last for 2 years, in which case, he'll prevent a double Neville match.

Scratch that, he might not even be married to Bona, negotiations take some time, assuming he's like his elder brother, he'll favor a Burgundian of Breton match, but I don't think there's anyone age appropriate, in which case I'd suggest looking to Iberia, not sure if there's anyone age appropriate there either.

Bona of Savoy is the best match around as Isabella of Castile will not marry abroad (if her brother survived he will marry Juana the Beltraneja and Isabella will still marry Ferdinand) and the three Joanna too young

 

[CaptainShadow]

Bona of Savoy is the best match around as Isabella of Castile will not marry abroad (if her brother survived he will marry Juana the Beltraneja and Isabella will still marry Ferdinand) and the three Joanna too young

It depends on his personality and his temperament, really. If he wants England at peace, he'll marry Bona, give George to Isabel, and probably saddle Richard with some heiress (preferably from a Lancastrian family).

If he wants glory in France, though.......

 

[iMercadier]

Most likely Warwick will take full power in name of the young King and rule England for him and marrying him to Bona of Savoy (and engaging his own daughters to William’s younger brothers)...

The Neville marriages will occur as OTL.

That's two PoDs. And if William is alive in 1461 (he'd be 14) instead of dying in 1447, butterflies disrupt the events of the next 14 years. That would include the births of the five youngest York children (including George and Richard) and the deaths of the Duke and Edmund of Rutland at Wakefield. So there would not be a battle of Towton.

How so? William, as a boy of 5 years, could hardly stop the birth of his younger siblings. Nor have a great impact on the Battle of Wakefield at 13.

Yeah, with a kid on the throne you'd imagine Warwick will be firmly ensconced in power for a while.

He will, to an extent.

What happens to George and Richard? Do they also die?

They're still alive.

If he wants glory in France, though.......

Might add another PoD, have one of Louis XI's older daughters survive.

 

[CaptainShadow]

How so? William, as a boy of 5 years, could hardly stop the birth of his younger siblings. Nor have a great impact on the Battle of Wakefield at 13.

Butterflies affect the world exactly after the POD, he can't stop his younger siblings from being born, but they will have different personalities and capabilities.
To say nothing of the battles, political situation, and the like.....

 

[isabella]

The Neville marriages will occur as OTL.

How so? William, as a boy of 5 years, could hardly stop the birth of his younger siblings. Nor have a great impact on the Battle of Wakefield at 13.

He will, to an extent.

They're still alive.

Might add another PoD, have one of Louis XI's older daughters survive.

Still too young, the eldest was only one years older than Anne...

 

[iMercadier]

Still too young, the eldest was only one years older than Anne...

Or have a daughter born earlier. Who can say?

 

[iMercadier]

Prologue​

Blood surged over William’s fingers in tune with his brother’s heartbeat. No matter how he pressed, he couldn’t contain the wound. It just flowed out, his brother flowed out, the ground was wet with snow and the wound writhed with maggots…

“Will,” whispered Edward, breaking William out of his trance.

“Edward,” said William, blue eyes dim. He felt like crying, but found the tears wouldn’t come.

“Avenge our father… avenge Edmund… avenge m-m-me…” rasped Edward, and then he passed. William couldn’t believe the sight before him, couldn’t believe that he’d now lost two brothers and a father to this wretched war. He felt the snow melt onto his blood splattered clothes, but he cared little.

Still crouched, William looked about him. A shore of corpses, broken heads, spilled guts and scorched flesh stretched as far as his eyes could see. Rivers of blood marred the pure white snow, and yet he felt nothing. That was the day William Plantagenet died.

When he rose, he was a new man. Same meat. Same bone. But so very different. His blue eyes, once filled with compassion and warmth, now held nothing but cold, dead spite.

A man noticed him, standing over his dead brother, and then another. Soon the whole Army of York stood before him, looking on with something akin to worship. “The King is dead! Long live the King!” they roared, and the followers of the Mad King trembled.

After the traitors had been driven across the River Beck, forty two knights who had surrendered threw themselves at the mercy of the Young King. When asked to permit their ransom, King William is said to have looked at them with something akin to scorn. “What mercy did the House of Lancaster show to Our father, Our two brothers?” he asked. When no answer was forthcoming, he ordered their lot be put to the sword.

Early the next morning Lord Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick, brought news of the casualties to the Young King. “The Lancastrian nobles who were slain are: the Earl of Northumberland, the Barons Dacre of de Mauley, Gillsland and Welles, the Barons Clifford and Neville, Sir Andrew Trollope, and Sir Henry Stafford. More than half of their forty thousand men were killed, the rest having fled with the Mad King. The Earl of Devon was also captured, and has put himself at your mercy,” said Warwick, grinning in satisfaction.

King William gave the slightest nod of approval, saying, “Indeed, My Lord. Woe to he who opposes the Army of York. Now, what of our own losses?”

“Perhaps a twentieth of your twenty thousand men,” said Warwick, grin growing even larger.

At that King William let something like the ghost of a smile come onto his face, but it was a bittersweet sight. His brother’s death had broken something in him, and he doubted that it’d ever heal. Sometimes he felt more animal than man, dreaming of nothing but the utter slaughter of his enemies.

“And who still rides with the Mad King?” asked the Young King.

“The Whore of Anjou, her bastard by the old Somerset, the Dukes of Exeter and Somerset, the Earl of Wiltshire, the Viscount Beaumont, the Barons Hunger, de Ros and Rougemont, Chief Justice Fortescue, and perhaps ten thousand men. Most have deserted or died of starvation, and more leave the Pretender’s army every day,” said Warwick, satisfaction high in his tone.

“Then we march,” said King William, voice like iron. “Set Our army to rights, and order them to be ready within the hour.”

-----

King William rode atop a black warhorse, already fully grown into his father’s height[1] at the young age of 14. He wore a wolfskin robe lined with silver, the obsidian trappings of royalty draped about his neck and fingers. His long brown hair was slicked back, a warrior’s crown of black iron set with rubies atop his head. A sword of Milanese steel hung from his hip, and his blue eyes looked coldly at the road before him.

Twenty thousand men rode at his back, the loyal nobles of England at their head. They were few, but more would come. Amongst them were: the Duke of Norfolk, the Earl of Warwick, the Barons Berners, Fauconberg and FitzWalter.

Upon his triumphant entry into York, the Young King immediately had the Earl of Devon executed. The Earl’s head was put atop the same gate where the late Prince of Wales’ had once rested, an irony befitting the treacherous Lancastrian.

Three days later King William was in Durham, where he took measures to ensure the loyalty of the borderlands of England. There news reached him of the Mad King’s residence at Berwick-upon-Tweed, and it’s imminent danger of being ceded to the Scots. Thus he rode north once more, this time stopping at Newcastle.

The Earl of Wiltshire having been captured, he was immediately executed after a speedy trial. Warwick reported that the formidable castles of Alnwick, Bamborough, Dunstanborough and Warkworth blocked their road to Berwick. King William, refusing to be stopped, spent precious time reducing them all to his obedience.

By the time Bamburgh had fallen, Berwick had already been surrendered to the Scots. The Mad King and his followers were in residence at Edinburgh, the guests of the boy King James III.

King William cared little, saying that as King of England, he would achieve hegemony over the British Isles in no time at all.

-----

“Berwick-upon-Tweed is the key to Scotland,” said King William, having already begun the siege. “It is a mighty fortress, garrisoned by four thousand men, Englishmen and Scots in equal measure. The Duke of Somerset, and the Barons Hungerford and de Ros, hold it against us. We will starve them out, and then put them to the sword.”

The Yorkists cheered, and the siege continued. Some two months later the town at last gave out, and the Lancastrian Lords threw themselves at the mercy of King William.

“This conflict, My Lords, has become a blood feud between Us and Our Cousin of Lancaster. Too bitter by far, but the murder of Our father and Our brothers warrant no less. We would, however, hear your last words before you are executed,” said the Young King in response.

“Damn you and be cursed, boy!” roared Somerset. “You are no king of mine!” Then he, and his accomplices, were dragged in chains to the block, and duly executed.

The garrison of Berwick was likewise put to the sword, King William then marching with the Army of York to invade Scotland proper. A bloody campaign followed, of which little is recorded. Dunbar, Jedburgh and Roxburgh were captured, and left under the charge of the Duke of Norfolk with three thousand men.

Next came the Siege of Edinburgh, which held out for four months. The ancient fortress, almost inevitably, fell to the mighty army of King William. The Mad King was captured, his wife and her bastard narrowly escaping by ship to France.

-----

P.S. Not sure if I'm necessarily going to continue this timeline, or even if the writing is any good, but I've spent a moderate amount of time writing it. So, any feedback is greatly appreciate it.

P.S.S. Be on the lookout for a new Arthur of Brittany TL, probably going to upload it today or tomorrow.

 

[CaptainShadow]

I think William is being too cruel for a 14 year old here........and I say this as a 14 year old.

 

[iMercadier]

I think William is being too cruel for a 14 year old here........and I say this as a 14 year old.

Sort of basing him off Philip Augustus, who annexed the County of Vermandois and lead an army at 14. The War of the Roses was also a bitter one; at that point no quarter was asked for or given. The Lancastrians and Yorkists even decided on the eve of battle that no mercy would be shown. Whenever a noble of the opposing party was captured they were killed, often brutally. Some few months before this Richard of York was killed at the Battle of Wakefield, and his head put on a spike atop the walls of York. His son Edmund, Earl of Rutland, was found after the battle and murdered by Baron Clifford. The second Duke of Somerset was found at the first Battle of St Albans and killed, the Earl of Northumberland likewise put to the sword while fleeing. Clifford's father was hacked to death in the streets of the aftermath.

Tl;dr -- Brutal executions were common in the War of the Roses, especially at this point.

 

[CaptainShadow]

Sort of basing him off Philip Augustus, who annexed the County of Vermandois and lead an army at 14. The War of the Roses was also a bitter one; at that point no quarter was asked for or given. The Lancastrians and Yorkists even decided on the eve of battle that no mercy would be shown. Whenever a noble of the opposing party was captured they were killed, often brutally. Some few months before this Richard of York was killed at the Battle of Wakefield, and his head put on a spike atop the walls of York. His son Edmund, Earl of Rutland, was found after the battle and murdered by Baron Clifford. The second Duke of Somerset was found at the first Battle of St Albans and killed, the Earl of Northumberland likewise put to the sword while fleeing. Clifford's father was hacked to death in the streets of the aftermath.

Tl;dr -- Brutal executions were common in the War of the Roses, especially at this point.

Ofc, but your own post said that he was a compassionate boy, him killing off everyone is unlikely IMO, not if he was doing it himself. More likely that Warwick is the one giving them the chop.

Another question, is him pushing into Scotland actually viable?

 

[iMercadier]

Ofc, but your own post said that he was a compassionate boy, him killing off everyone is unlikely IMO, not if he was doing it himself. More likely that Warwick is the one giving them the chop.

Another question, is him pushing into Scotland actually viable?

As to the first point:

That was the day William Plantagenet died.

When he rose, he was a new man. Same meat. Same bone. But so very different. His blue eyes, once filled with compassion and warmth, now held nothing but cold, dead spite.

Now, for the second. James III 9 or 10 years old at the time, a boy too young to truly rule his nation. The Scots didn't have (to my knowledge) any great generals at this time, so to my mind it's viable.

 

[CaptainShadow]

As to the first point:

Now, for the second. James III 9 or 10 years old at the time, a boy too young to truly rule his nation. The Scots didn't have (to my knowledge) any great generals at this time, so to my mind it's viable.

A) ok, I still think that someone's whole personality turning around is unlikely, but it's because of war, so ig it's possible.
B) I have little knowledge of Scotland at this period, so I'll agree unless someone intervenes.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

William, as a boy of 5 years, could hardly stop the birth of his younger siblings. Nor have a great impact on the Battle of Wakefield at 13.

I wrote "disrupt". William's survival joggles the personal life of his parents ,Richard and Cicely, such that it becomes extremely improbable that any later children are conceived by the same sperm fertilizing the same ovum on the same day as OTL. Richard and Cicely were a very fertile couple, so more children are highly probable, but they will have different personalities; half of them, more or less, will be of the opposite sex.

Richard's political and military moves are less subject to this "butterfly effect", but over more than ten years, there will be changes, which will beget other changes. By 1460, the effects will change the details of the on-going struggle. There may not even be a battle of Wakefield.

 

[CaptainShadow]

I wrote "disrupt". William's survival joggles the personal life of his parents ,Richard and Cicely, such that it becomes extremely improbable that any later children are conceived by the same sperm fertilizing the same ovum on the same day as OTL. Richard and Cicely were a very fertile couple, so more children are highly probable, but they will have different personalities; half of them, more or less, will be of the opposite sex.

Richard's political and military moves are less subject to this "butterfly effect", but over more than ten years, there will be changes, which will beget other changes. By 1460, the effects will change the details of the on-going struggle. There may not even be a battle of Wakefield.

You explained the butterfly effect beautifully.

Bravo!