WI During Cuban Missile Crisis Khrushchev ordered his ships to run Blockade

[njslim]

October 23, 1962 Meeting of Soviet Politboro is reviewing the text of JFK speech the night before Nikita Khrushchev is in high dungeon

"THIS IS PIRACY !" IT IS MADNESS Kennedy is mad if he thinks this will succeed ! The Americans think they control the sea and can rule on who can use them They think they can deny us, the Soviet Union, the right to sail the seas to support our socialist brethren on the island of Cuba Well we shall ignore this "Quarantine Line" as Kenedy calls it Our ships will continue on course to Cuba and resist all efforts to stop them Order the captain of all the ships enroute to Cuba to ignore the American Quarantine line and go full steam if challenged will ignore all attempts to identify themselves and continue on The American will see the resolve of Socialist people when confronted by the corrupt capitalists . "

Proceeding toward Cuba were several ships with large hatch, capable of holding SS5 SKEAN IRBM missiles, The POLTAVA, KRASNOGRAD, UGRENCH..KOSIMOV, DOLMATOVOV and YURI GARGARIN The LENINIY KOMOSOMOL had crated aircraft on her deck, from the size and shapes identified as IL 28 BEAGLE medium bombers as was the BOLSHEVIK SUKHANOV The POLTAVA had as deck cargo several trucks containing large rings that were identified as launch support rings for the SS5

 

[njslim]

October 24, 1962

The Cruiser NEWPORT NEWS with 2 destroyers is to intercept the POLTAVA, The ESSEX with her escorts is to detain the KOSIMOV

As the POLTAVA approached the Quarantine Line was challenged to stop and identify herself As the POLTAVA continued on the traditional shot over the bow was fired which the ship ignored, putting on full speed to evade. The following action was taken by the US warships Shot were fired at the rudder by the destroyers wqhich finally stopped the ship. A boarding party of US bluejackets, armed with Thompson Submachine gun, shotguns and pistols stormed aboard the disabled ship. After a short fire fight were able to subdue the Soviet crew, 1 American sailor was killed and 3 wounded, 3 Soviets were killed 6 wounded. Despite the gunfire, fortunately none of the missile or the fuel trailers were punctured , avoid the toxic and corrosive missile fuel spilling.

 

[Dancing Fool]

After a short fire fight were able to subdue the Soviet crew, 1 American sailor was killed and 3 wounded, 3 Soviets were killed 6 wounded. Despite the gunfire, fortunately none of the missile or the fuel trailers were punctured , avoid the toxic and corrosive missile fuel spilling.

So, coming up alarmingly close to the brink. Maybe cooler heads will prevail, or maybe they won’t ? ?

Will make for a heck of a tense movie scene [as long as the movie continues to have both predictable AND largely unpredictable scenes, in my opinion of course]

 

[TerenceofGod]

The Soviet Sub present launches his Nuclear Torpedo and breaks the Blockade.

WW3 starts and Europe falls to the Soviets as a Nuclear Marked zone.

 

[Gentian1707]

October 24, 1962

The Cruiser NEWPORT NEWS with 2 destroyers is to intercept the POLTAVA, The ESSEX with her escorts is to detain the KOSIMOV

As the POLTAVA approached the Quarantine Line was challenged to stop and identify herself As the POLTAVA continued on the traditional shot over the bow was fired which the ship ignored, putting on full speed to evade. The following action was taken by the US warships Shot were fired at the rudder by the destroyers wqhich finally stopped the ship. A boarding party of US bluejackets, armed with Thompson Submachine gun, shotguns and pistols stormed aboard the disabled ship. After a short fire fight were able to subdue the Soviet crew, 1 American sailor was killed and 3 wounded, 3 Soviets were killed 6 wounded. Despite the gunfire, fortunately none of the missile or the fuel trailers were punctured , avoid the toxic and corrosive missile fuel spilling.

I thought USA always stood for freedom of navigation. Was that only a recent development or does it only apply to US?

 

[Blyatnik]

I thought USA always stood for freedom of navigation. Was that only a recent development or does it only apply to US?

Pretty much. Countries often play double-standards in geopolitics, it's just how it is. It's not just the US that does it by any means, but the US just doesn't get called out on it, or can sanction to hell the countries that do.

 

[CalBear]

The Soviet Sub present launches his Nuclear Torpedo and breaks the Blockade.

WW3 starts and Europe falls to the Soviets as a Nuclear Marked zone.

Closer to DC, Miami and probably NYC get hit from the OPERATIONAL missiles in Cuba and the one or two so successful ICBM launches from the USSR, Western Europe get hurt badly and the Soviet Union just flat ceases to exist as the mythical "Missile Gap" is dramatically demonstrated as being utter tripe as 50+ U.S. ICBM and ~100 Polaris SLBM are the first wave of missiles to hit the USSR, followed by 50+ Thor and Jupiter missiles and then the ultimate expression of Rolling Thunder as SAC's manned bombers start to arrive two hours after those on Fail Safe station arrive, followed by hundreds more from U.S. bases. Somewhere in that time period U.S. and almost certainly RAF bomner start hitting Soviet and WP airfield and troop concentrations as both sides blow the pougies out of Berlin. The USN get its own strike bombers engaged, hitting bases in the Crimea and the Soviet Far East.

Not really a good time is had by just about anyone.

I thought USA always stood for freedom of navigation. Was that only a recent development or does it only apply to US?

It applies until a war level issue evolves and then it becomes "it is always nice to have the biggest stick on the playground" aka the Animal Farm Rule.

 

[Monk78]

What if the soviet freighters are armed with deck guns firing star shells and flares ? Just to intimidate the USN

 

[muskeg13]

What if the soviet freighters are armed with deck guns firing star shells and flares ? Just to intimidate the USN

They are quickly sunk, and the detailed inventory of their cargo is left to speculation.

 

[njslim]

What if the soviet freighters are armed with deck guns firing star shells and flares ? Just to intimidate the USN

Soviet freighter ingadurka had been equipped with 2 37 mm AA guns, it transported over 100 nuclear warheads to Cuba in Sptember 1962

 

[RanulfC]

I thought USA always stood for freedom of navigation. Was that only a recent development or does it only apply to US?

Russia stationed nuclear weapons in Cube both to make a point about the US not invading Cuba and to point out the US deployment of IRBM's in Italy and Turkey which gave them range to hit Moscow. Khrushchev expected Kennedy to negotiate but Kennedy saw it as backing him into a corner politically and the idea was frankly unacceptable to the general US population and politicians, Large miscalculation on Khrushchev's part and also had major stress points with the Cuban military and leadership who wanted more control over the Soviet nuclear weapons.

Eisenhower hadn't actually wanted to develop or deploy the IRBM's but Congress forced both.

Randy

 

[Kinmanster]

Closer to DC, Miami and probably NYC get hit from the OPERATIONAL missiles in Cuba and the one or two so successful ICBM launches from the USSR, Western Europe get hurt badly and the Soviet Union just flat ceases to exist as the mythical "Missile Gap" is dramatically demonstrated as being utter tripe as 50+ U.S. ICBM and ~100 Polaris SLBM are the first wave of missiles to hit the USSR, followed by 50+ Thor and Jupiter missiles and then the ultimate expression of Rolling Thunder as SAC's manned bombers start to arrive two hours after those on Fail Safe station arrive, followed by hundreds more from U.S. bases. Somewhere in that time period U.S. and almost certainly RAF bomner start hitting Soviet and WP airfield and troop concentrations as both sides blow the pougies out of Berlin. The USN get its own strike bombers engaged, hitting bases in the Crimea and the Soviet Far East.

Not really a good time is had by just about anyone.


It applies until a war level issue evolves and then it becomes "it is always nice to have the biggest stick on the playground" aka the Animal Farm Rule.

The Soviets also have thousands of nukes so if those fly the west will also cease to exist.

Might be good for the third world though they will be able to rise as a new power.

 

[RanulfC]

The Soviets also have thousands of nukes so if those fly the west will also cease to exist.

Might be good for the third world though they will be able to rise as a new power.

Not in 1962 they didn't, specifically they had mostly tactical weapons with very short range delivery systems and little ability to project them beyond Europe. Their 'main' strategy at the time was to hope to use a nuclear torpedo on US harbors.

Randy

 

[RamscoopRaider]

The Soviets also have thousands of nukes so if those fly the west will also cease to exist.

Might be good for the third world though they will be able to rise as a new power.

CalBear's talking about what happens if B-59 launches its nuclear torpedo at one of the US warships harrassing it. In which case the Soviet nukes matter a lot less because most of them would be destroyed on the ground because Thomas Powers and George Anderson are going to have their missiles and bombers launch as soon as they hear a US warship was nuked, and in October of 1962 they have the authority to do that without waiting for orders from the President. Given how long it took the Soviet ICBMs and Bombers to be ready to launch, most of the 6 R-7A and 36 R-16 ICBMs will be destroyed before they can launch, same with the 100 Tu95 and 60 M-4 bombers, some will be missed but not many, and there are the 8 R-12 missiles ready on Cuba that would probably get to launch. So quite reasonably if the US launches first, as it would in the B-59 fires scenario, the US would be nuked less than 20 times, which would leave the US relatively intact, with Canada maybe copping a few hits from bombers

Europe is getting flattened because most of the Tu-16, andTu-22 bombers, strike oriented Mig 21's and 528 R-12 missiles, 28 R-14's there would not be hit before they could launch, plus all the very short ranged tactical systems, but that is a Germany problem. So Britain/Spain/Portugal might come out surprisingly well, still nuked but recognizable, France and Italy might still be around too

 

[CalBear]

The Soviets also have thousands of nukes so if those fly the west will also cease to exist.

Might be good for the third world though they will be able to rise as a new power.

Soviets could definitely mess up Western Europe. Western Hemisphere? Not so much.

 

[RandomChance]

The Soviets also have thousands of nukes so if those fly the west will also cease to exist.

Not in 1962. Soviets had c.300 strategic warheads, the US 5000 (From a total stockpile of 3600 vs 27000 respectively), driven by an inability to deliver them. Europe would likely take a hit, but the US would only be bruised at this point.

 

[David Floyd]

Let’s be clear. A nuclear war in 1962 would have been tragic and catastrophic. At the same time, it would have been utterly winnable by the United States.

 

[Kinmanster]

Wasn’t the 60s and 70s the height of Soviet power in the 80s they were declining and in the early 90s they fell.

 

[RamscoopRaider]

Wasn’t the 60s and 70s the height of Soviet power in the 80s they were declining and in the early 90s they fell.

Relative power and the period was still 20 years long. The absolute height of Soviet power vis a vis the west was the late 70's

In terms of balance of nuclear forces, most relevant here, the Soviets did not get enough to achieve MAD until 1965 is and did not really get parity with the US until after 1970