WI Drusus the Younger Lives (2.0)

[John Fredrick Parker]

A couple of years ago we looked into a scenario - with input by @Matteo @SlyDessertFox @vandevere - on a scenario where Drusus, the son of Emperor Tiberius, kills Sejanus, head of the Praetorian Guard, for sleeping with his wife, Livia, before the latter two coukd conspire to kill him as OTL. This would (unless I or we were very, very mistaken) effectively initiate a divorce against Livia, which is a bit of an issue for Tiberius and son, because Livia connected Drusus to the Julian bloodline (her being the sister of Germanicus).

Now, in the thread a few years back, we got really excited about a seemingly perfect solution to this quandary - have Drusus marry the widow of Germanicus and thorn in Tiberius’ side, Agrippina, neutralizing one of the biggest political threats to his father and getting back into the Julian line in one fell swoop. Then... more recently, I noticed something we had missed - that Agrippina was Drusus’ aunt, through his mother. When I raised the issue on the general B1900 thread, @isabella said this marriage would be a non-starter since (a) it was illegal, requiring a change of the laws that was hard enough for Emperor Claudius OTL, and (b) Agrippina did not wish to remarry.

So I’m thinking now it might be worth just revisiting the question - if Drusus the Younger had killed Sejanus, and had to divorce his wife, who, if anyone, would he marry next?

 

[SlyDessertFox]

So I’m thinking now it might be worth just revisiting the question - if Drusus the Younger had killed Sejanus, and had to divorce his wife, who, if anyone, would he marry next?

Within the family, there is Julia Drusilla, daughter of Agrippina the Elder and Germanicus, who married Lucius Cassius Longinus in 33.

Alternatively, Valeria Messalina, future wife of Claudius, is right there.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Within the family, there is Julia Drusilla, daughter of Agrippina the Elder and Germanicus, who married Lucius Cassius Longinus in 33.

Alternatively, Valeria Messalina, future wife of Claudius, is right there.

Notably though, they’re all very young at the time of our PoD - the eldest daughter of Agrippina the Elder (the Younger) is only seven at this time, and Messalina’s even younger. The Domitia Lepidas (Elder and Younger) would be more age appropriate to marry off the bat, were they not already taken.

So it seems, if Drusus is to marry again and keep it in the family, he’d have to hold off for a few years.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

Notably though, they’re all very young at the time of our PoD - the eldest daughter of Agrippina the Elder (the Younger) is only seven at this time, and Messalina’s even younger. The Domitia Lepidas (Elder and Younger) would be more age appropriate to marry off the bat, we’re they not already taken.

So it seems, if Drusus is to marry again and keep it in the family, he’d have to hold off for a few years.

Right. I guess in 23 CE an interesting available choice is Domitia Lepida The Younger, if you can hold off her marriage to Faustus Cornelius Sulla in 21 CE. Or actually have her first husband, Marcus Valerius Messalina Barbatus, not die until 22 or 23 (instead of 21).

She's the mother of Messalina, and the granddaughter of Marc Antony and Octavia so she ties into the Julian line.

 

[StevenIronside]

Alternatively he had a son already, Gemellus, so unless Gemellus dies there is really no need for him to marry again, as he has his julio claudian line.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Something else occurs to me - we talked before about how Nero, son of Germanicus, and Julia Livia, daughter of Drusus, had a seemingly rough marriage that OTL led the latter to join the plotting of her mother and Sejanus. Well, it just struck me now that these two were first cousins, and I’m kind of wondering now if that, in any way, led to this friction?

This actually relates to a fairly important question in its own right - namely, does Nero (Agrippina's son) stay married to Julia (Drusus' daughter) TTL? If he does, there may yet be some possibility of him being a possible heir to Drusus. Speaking of which...

Alternatively he had a son already, Gemellus, so unless Gemellus dies there is really no need for him to marry again, as he has his julio claudian line.

Ok, so I'm thinking he marries one of Agrippina the Elder's daughters - probably the youngest and closest in age to him, Julia Livilla.

So let's say Drusus takes over as Emperor following the death (or possibly retirement) of Tiberius, and reigns until his own death circa 50 CE; he has two potential heirs, his own son married to a daughter of Germanicus, or the son of Germanicus married to his daughter. Since the latter is older, and in a position to be more experienced, I'd say he's got a fair shot of taking the imperial title.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

If he does, there may yet be some possibility of him being a possible heir to Drusus. Speaking of which...

Why would he be an heir to Drusus over Drusus's own son? By 50 CE, Gemellus would be 31 years old and presumably would have been given administrative and military experience, and would have already been provided all the effective powers of a princeps during Drusus's lifetime, much as was the case with Tiberius by the time of Augustus's death, and would be the case with Drusus by the time of Tiberius's death.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Why would he be an heir to Drusus over Drusus's own son? By 50 CE, Gemellus would be 31 years old and presumably would have been given administrative and military experience, and would have already been provided all the effective powers of a princeps during Drusus's lifetime, much as was the case with Tiberius by the time of Augustus's death, and would be the case with Drusus by the time of Tiberius's death.

Fair enough. Put this way then - if Gemellus were to somehow become, ahem, indisposed prior to the death of his father, would Nero be the most likely choice for replacement heir?

 

[StevenIronside]

Unfortunately we dont know much about this nero. But if drusus put all his hopes into gemellus and gemellus died nero would be his likely hier.

 

[isabella]

Drusus maybe will remarry but his second wife can not be Agrippina the Elder (and likely neither Agrippina the Younger, if he was willing to wait)....
Livia and Gemellus will be married to the children of Agrippina (the elder boy for her, any of the girls for him)

Maybe the smarter thing for Drusus would be not remarry at all... Sure he has just one son but Rome is not missing heirs as the three sons of Germanicus also are in line for it.

Why would he be an heir to Drusus over Drusus's own son? By 50 CE, Gemellus would be 31 years old and presumably would have been given administrative and military experience, and would have already been provided all the effective powers of a princeps during Drusus's lifetime, much as was the case with Tiberius by the time of Augustus's death, and would be the case with Drusus by the time of Tiberius's death.

Most likely because Germanicus was the heir of Tiberius before Drusus AND Nero and Drusus are direct descendants of Augustus unlike Gemellus, plus the usual age consideration...

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Something else occurs to me - we talked before about how Nero, son of Germanicus, and Julia Livia, daughter of Drusus, had a seemingly rough marriage that OTL led the latter to join the plotting of her mother and Sejanus. Well, it just struck me now that these two were first cousins, and I’m kind of wondering now if that, in any way, led to this friction?

This actually relates to a fairly important question in its own right - namely, does Nero (Agrippina's son) stay married to Julia (Drusus' daughter) TTL?

Would it be fair to say that TTL has Nero and Julia stay married? Is it even reasonable to think, Nero, upon succeeding Drusus, could well find himself without issue of his own at the end of his life, leading once again to a Julio-Claudian having to choose a non-descendant heir?

 

[isabella]

Would it be fair to say that TTL has Nero and Julia stay married? Is it even reasonable to think, Nero, upon succeeding Drusus, could well find himself without issue of his own at the end of his life, leading once again to a Julio-Claudian having to choose a non-descendant heir?

Well if Nero has no heir of his own he will adopt some nephews as heirs, either sons of his brothers or of one of his sisters and Gemellus...

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Well if Nero has no heir of his own he will adopt some nephews as heirs, either sons of his brothers or of one of his sisters and Gemellus...

If his brother Drusus dies early as part of our PoD,* that would mean it’s either down to Gaius - who I can still see as being something of a black sheep in the family, even if he’s not as fully unhinged as OTL - or Agrippina the Younger, who I am fairly sure will have a different husband than OTL.

*just go with it - it helps me keep the names straight