WI: David Lynch directs Return of the Jedi...

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

That would be interesting.

Heck, if the idea for the Ssi-Ruuk was around this early, it could be them?

Of course, that might not work--the Ssi-Ruuk were originally allies of the Empire, whom Palpatine allowed to attack isolated Imperial worlds in exchange for technology. They'd need to have their back-stories changed.

Prefer Trandoshans myself, sure they made their livings as slavers and bounty hunters for the Empire but perhaps something could make them turn. The Chistori (Desann's people) are another interesting concept. I could always picture this hypothetical species as somewhat of a defector race, i.e. they support the ideals of the Empire but dislike the racism to which they are subjected.

 

[MerryPrankster]

http://accordingtoquinn.blogspot.com/2011/04/david-lynch-directing-return-of-jedi.html

I included my ideas re: the Ssi-Ruuk and Luke dueling Palpatine along with HeavyWeaponsGuy's ideas re: the Trandoshans.

I transformed them into full-blown fan-fiction plot bunnies. Maybe someone will use them.

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

http://accordingtoquinn.blogspot.com/2011/04/david-lynch-directing-return-of-jedi.html

I included my ideas re: the Ssi-Ruuk and Luke dueling Palpatine along with HeavyWeaponsGuy's ideas re: the Trandoshans.

I transformed them into full-blown fan-fiction plot bunnies. Maybe someone will use them.

I love the name of your blog, and now I feel famous for having appeared on it (especially when it comes to my being consulted about Star Wars).

The Emperor uses his cane because he wants to appear weak not because he actually needs it though, and I believe force lightning is literally such an advanced technique that it is needed to be taught by a Sith master (of which there is only one at a time according to the Sith Rule of Two), people like Asajj Ventress were extremely skilled fighters and practitioners of the Dark Side of the force but Ventress never was capable of casting force lightning. Even an insanely skilled force prodigy like Luke can't pull an advanced technique like that without being taught it.

I must say though, I prefer the Trandoshans, they have cultural reasons for basically being the mercenaries that they are. In their religion they have to score things known as Jugganath points in order to satiate their deity the Scorekeeper, Jugganath points are scored by killing sentient beings. In that regard this makes Trandoshans a hunter culture not unlike Rodians and makes them very suited to killing-intensive jobs such as mercenaries, enforcers in criminal gangs, etc. All the dirty jobs, given their emnity towards Wookiees they are highly unlikely to actively side with members of said race, however killing agents of the Empire in response to some sort of Imperial crime against the Trandoshan race (maybe bombing Trandosha with the Emperor's Plague for some offense), though I think for the sake of not having them be an entire race determined by the same characteristics you would have some (to use TV Tropes as you did) "Proud Warrior Race Guys" in addition to your more prevalent "Blood Knights", the PWRGs would be more tolerant and perhaps even show some levels of disdain for unnecessary killing though would relish excessively in that which they were permitted to do. I was never one for the idea of the race being all the same unless it was actually some sort of hive mind.

 

[MerryPrankster]

The Emperor uses his cane because he wants to appear weak not because he actually needs it though, and I believe force lightning is literally such an advanced technique that it is needed to be taught by a Sith master (of which there is only one at a time according to the Sith Rule of Two), people like Asajj Ventress were extremely skilled fighters and practitioners of the Dark Side of the force but Ventress never was capable of casting force lightning. Even an insanely skilled force prodigy like Luke can't pull an advanced technique like that without being taught it.

Palpatine is pretty decrepit-looking even without the cane. In addition to the Dark Side gnawing at him, he'd have to be rather old at this point. Assuming he was in his 40s or 50s in TPM, he'd be 50-60 in AOTC and ROTS. Add 23 years and he could easily be in his 80s in ROTJ.

And if Force lightning needs to be taught, how was it devised in the first place? Someone had to have done it spontaneously and figured out how to do it again.

And did Ventress ever attempt Force lightning?

 

[Redem]

Luke doesn't mind sleeping with his sister? a lot more voice-over?

 

[MerryPrankster]

Luke doesn't mind sleeping with his sister? a lot more voice-over?

If Han were to die, Leia might "fall back" on Luke, unaware of them being siblings.

When did Luke know Leia was his sister? I know he revealed this to her just before he surrendered to the Imperial garrison on Endor (the whole "my...sister" line), but I can't remember when he himself found out.

They did kiss, although that was mostly to annoy Han IIRC.

 

[Redem]

If Han were to die, Leia might "fall back" on Luke, unaware of them being siblings.

When did Luke know Leia was his sister? I know he revealed this to her just before he surrendered to the Imperial garrison on Endor (the whole "my...sister" line), but I can't remember when he himself found out.

They did kiss, although that was mostly to annoy Han IIRC.

When he saw Obi-wan on Dagobah after freeing Han

 

[ArKhan]

From the star war wiki:

Had Abbadon was actually a proposed name for the Imperial capital—later identified as Coruscant—which appeared in early drafts of Return of the Jedi. It was meant to be a city-planet orbited by two Death Stars under construction, and the Green Moon, later renamed Jus-Endor (which would later become Endor). Its lowest levels were meant to be home to Emperor Palpatine's throne room, surrounded by a lake of lava, around which Luke Skywalker would duel Darth Vader. These concepts were ultimately separated into the Emperor's throne room aboard Death Star II and Mustafar.
"Abbadon" is a misspelling of "Abaddon" which means "destruction" in Hebrew, and is also the name for the fallen angel of the same attribute.

Early concept art for Had Abbadon with two orbiting Death Stars by Ralph McQuarrie.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Had_Abaddon

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

Palpatine is pretty decrepit-looking even without the cane. In addition to the Dark Side gnawing at him, he'd have to be rather old at this point. Assuming he was in his 40s or 50s in TPM, he'd be 50-60 in AOTC and ROTS. Add 23 years and he could easily be in his 80s in ROTJ.

And if Force lightning needs to be taught, how was it devised in the first place? Someone had to have done it spontaneously and figured out how to do it again.

And did Ventress ever attempt Force lightning?

We don't know how SL was made in the first place, but I'm not going to pin it on Luke, who's entire training as a force user has consisted of instruction in the use of the Light Side of the force, you almost have to wonder if Sith Lightning might even REQUIRE one to have hatred or passion that can be channeled.

Eh, but it's Palpatine though, he's one of if not the most powerful Dark Side users in the galaxy (aside from Galen Marek, who is unfortunately canonical but is an absurdly contrived Mary Sue so I sort of ignore him), he is old but that in a way only makes him more potent of a force-user, Luke's still never seen or experienced force lightning before, and even if he had the Emperor's power with it would be almost impossible to stop.

 

[MerryPrankster]

We don't know how SL was made in the first place, but I'm not going to pin it on Luke, who's entire training as a force user has consisted of instruction in the use of the Light Side of the force, you almost have to wonder if Sith Lightning might even REQUIRE one to have hatred or passion that can be channeled.

Eh, but it's Palpatine though, he's one of if not the most powerful Dark Side users in the galaxy (aside from Galen Marek, who is unfortunately canonical but is an absurdly contrived Mary Sue so I sort of ignore him), he is old but that in a way only makes him more potent of a force-user, Luke's still never seen or experienced force lightning before, and even if he had the Emperor's power with it would be almost impossible to stop.

1. It could be just as much a surprise for Luke as it is for Palpatine--some kind of "wild" manifestation of his anger. He wouldn't know to "point fingers at target and hate" but it might arc from him somehow.

The overall goal is to show just how close he is to the Dark Side--he already Force-choked someone on-screen and beat his more-experienced father into submission using his anger--and thus make him more "gray." Is there some other Dark Side power that's more advanced and destructive but more likely to appear spontaneously?

2. His age might make him wiser and more skilled, but it would make him physically more fragile. In the "Shadows of the Empire" novelization, Xizor comments on how sickly Palpatine looks--it's like something is eating him. The Dark Side may grant you lots of power, but it'll also mess you up.

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

1. It could be just as much a surprise for Luke as it is for Palpatine--some kind of "wild" manifestation of his anger. He wouldn't know to "point fingers at target and hate" but it might arc from him somehow.

The overall goal is to show just how close he is to the Dark Side--he already Force-choked someone on-screen and beat his more-experienced father into submission using his anger--and thus make him more "gray." Is there some other Dark Side power that's more advanced and destructive but more likely to appear spontaneously?

2. His age might make him wiser and more skilled, but it would make him physically more fragile. In the "Shadows of the Empire" novelization, Xizor comments on how sickly Palpatine looks--it's like something is eating him. The Dark Side may grant you lots of power, but it'll also mess you up.

I can see Luke using his force power in a way where the gloves come off and things get destroyed (i.e. like force push/barrier turned to max) and just being insanely powerful in his fury but force lightning to me seems just a bit iffy. Drain, rage, all the fun stuff I think is for the most part a practiced techinque, but who's to say you can't just become a storm of destruction with the force anyway.

I always thought of Dark Side corruption as being a corrosive vessel that in fact prolongs your life but in doing so extends the corrosion of your physical body into a slow, painful process, the Emperor was blighted, but in many ways he was becoming stronger even as the end of his life approached.

 

[AlternateWolf]

I can see Luke using his force power in a way where the gloves come off and things get destroyed (i.e. like force push/barrier turned to max) and just being insanely powerful in his fury but force lightning to me seems just a bit iffy. Drain, rage, all the fun stuff I think is for the most part a practiced techinque, but who's to say you can't just become a storm of destruction with the force anyway.

I always thought of Dark Side corruption as being a corrosive vessel that in fact prolongs your life but in doing so extends the corrosion of your physical body into a slow, painful process, the Emperor was blighted, but in many ways he was becoming stronger even as the end of his life approached.

In the Extended Universe, Jedi have used and are using force lightning (pre- and post-Original Trilogy) so it wouldn't be a stretch for Luke to do so (who's used it in the EU)http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_lightning#Use_by_Jedi. Of course most of the EU stuff came after the OT was out, so whatever Lucas had in mind for force lightning was up to him when he did ROTJ.

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

In the Extended Universe, Jedi have used and are using force lightning (pre- and post-Original Trilogy) so it wouldn't be a stretch for Luke to do so (who's used it in the EU)http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_lightning#Use_by_Jedi. Of course most of the EU stuff came after the OT was out, so whatever Lucas had in mind for force lightning was up to him when he did ROTJ.

I think in the spirit of Lucas (and to avoid how insanely confusing EU canon gets since it tends to directly contradict either itself or the films, or both) lightning doesn't work but...

I still insist that lightning must be taught in some form, that does not necessarily mean by another force-user, but indirectly by a Holocron or something of that nature, a lot of your examples are either Jedi Masters or Galen Marek who would've had access to both Holocrons and Darth Vader (who was knowledgeable but his prosthetics made it impossible for he himself to cast force lightning). Either way, they have more access to knowledge that Luke would not have had the same level of, Luke probably barely had any inklings of the existence of Holocrons at the time of ROTJ.

 

[MerryPrankster]

I'm still not convinced of the "Force lightning has to be taught" bit, since that doesn't explain the origin of the technique. Someone had to invent it and he or she didn't have a teacher.

However, if Force Lightning doesn't work, perhaps Luke just simply beats Palpatine into submission with flying debris like Vader did to him on Cloud City?

To make things even more fun, perhaps he uses the Imperial Throne as a club.

Then the bloodied Palpatine starts laughing and cackling about how he has proven himself strong in the Dark Side. Luke might remember Vader using the same techniques against him and have his "I'm becoming my father" moment there.

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

I'm still not convinced of the "Force lightning has to be taught" bit, since that doesn't explain the origin of the technique. Someone had to invent it and he or she didn't have a teacher.

However, if Force Lightning doesn't work, perhaps Luke just simply beats Palpatine into submission with flying debris like Vader did to him on Cloud City?

To make things even more fun, perhaps he uses the Imperial Throne as a club.

Then the bloodied Palpatine starts laughing and cackling about how he has proven himself strong in the Dark Side. Luke might remember Vader using the same techniques against him and have his "I'm becoming my father" moment there.

I considered that, and I think if I were to actually write an alternate throne room duel that's what would happen, with some aspects of Palpatine allowed Luke to beat him for the sake of making him feel the strength of the Dark Side and then (in Palpatine's ever-scheming view) reassert his true strength as master (i.e. beat the crap out of Luke and basically tell him that his light side masters have failed and that their powers are worthless compared to his, and that Luke's own powers in the Dark Side are not yet strong enough to destroy him, but that only through him can he learn the power to do so).

 

[MerryPrankster]

I considered that, and I think if I were to actually write an alternate throne room duel that's what would happen, with some aspects of Palpatine allowed Luke to beat him for the sake of making him feel the strength of the Dark Side and then (in Palpatine's ever-scheming view) reassert his true strength as master (i.e. beat the crap out of Luke and basically tell him that his light side masters have failed and that their powers are worthless compared to his, and that Luke's own powers in the Dark Side are not yet strong enough to destroy him, but that only through him can he learn the power to do so).

There's a danger in letting someone beat the crap out of you in that they might beat you too badly for you to recover from.

What if Luke cut off Palpatine's sword arm?

And although Palpatine is powerful, let's not make him into this god like "Dark Empire" did whose defeats only happen because he allowed them to. The novelization of ROTS depicts Palpatine as genuinely losing to Mace Windu.

(Of course, Luke is not Mace Windu.)

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

There's a danger in letting someone beat the crap out of you in that they might beat you too badly for you to recover from.

What if Luke cut off Palpatine's sword arm?

And although Palpatine is powerful, let's not make him into this god like "Dark Empire" did whose defeats only happen because he allowed them to. The novelization of ROTS depicts Palpatine as genuinely losing to Mace Windu.

(Of course, Luke is not Mace Windu.)

No, Luke isn't even close to, and a lot of the EU novels made the Emperor absurdly Mary Sue-ish, this is just the Emperor briefly permitting Luke to gain the upper hand to get a taste of what its like to really cut loose with his power with the hopes of enticing him for more.

 

[MerryPrankster]

No, Luke isn't even close to, and a lot of the EU novels made the Emperor absurdly Mary Sue-ish, this is just the Emperor briefly permitting Luke to gain the upper hand to get a taste of what its like to really cut loose with his power with the hopes of enticing him for more.

Well, if we're rewriting the actual movie, we can throw out the EU if we want.

(I kept the Ssi-Ruuk and Vong because they were useful.)

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

Well, if we're rewriting the actual movie, we can throw out the EU if we want.

(I kept the Ssi-Ruuk and Vong because they were useful.)

Vong make sense, that and I like the idea of the Rebellion having a bit of self-doubt in regards to a coming invasion and the efforts they are making to disrupt the preparations for it.

I think I will kindly pick and choose some bits of the EU to throw out actually.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Vong make sense, that and I like the idea of the Rebellion having a bit of self-doubt in regards to a coming invasion and the efforts they are making to disrupt the preparations for it.

I think I will kindly pick and choose some bits of the EU to throw out actually.

Thanks.

If you want the rebellion as a whole to have self-doubt, you could have Palpatine turning the Death Star into a gigantic TV broadcaster and beam images of Vong mayhem in the Unknown Regions into every Rebel ship and every Rebel-held planet (if there were any at this point).

However, Akbar and others might think this is essentially the Empire begging for mercy, especially if it takes place once the DS's shields go down or if the Executor is destroyed.