so in Alternatehistoryhub's American Greenland video (X) he largely rolls with the idea that the USSR liberates Denmark instead of the British, and creates a communist state. but that's largely regulated to the background to justify America yoinking the island. But i want to explore what this DPR would look like? we'll say D-Day is delayed and the USSR is just that little bit faster, giving Moscow enough time to liberate most if not all of Denmark. firstly, who would lead it? how would they play with Stalin and later Kruschev? Denmark is obviously vital strategically, so how do the Soviets build it up and develop it for the event of ww3? What happens to the danish royal family? are they just Iceland now? OTL, Knud Jepersen was a major hardliner in the 50s, leading the pro-soviet wing of the danish communist party, but he's also like... 20 and just getting into leftism in 45-46. So i guess he's a post 56 candidate, but that still leaves initial leadership up in the air.
WI: Danish People's Republic
- Thread starter AltoRegnant
- Start date
Would Sweden be more pro-NATO ttl? There was a fear among the Soviets that eating Finland would cause that reaction, so would Denmark?
The US won't allow a proxy of the USSR to retain Greenland, thats for sure. It'll be either annexed directly as a territory or made independent under US influence. Soviet Propaganda will have a field day with that.
Denmark is in a useful position for the Soviet Navy. They will be granted basing rights for their ships. Sweden will likely join NATO.
I'm not familiar enough with Danish communists to suggest who would be in charge, but I'm certain Stalin would find someone. Denmark wasn't that badly damaged by the war. By standard of living it'll probably be one of the best Warsaw Pact countries to live in. Of course it would still have huge repression for anyone who doesn't agree with the status quo.
Denmark is in a useful position for the Soviet Navy. They will be granted basing rights for their ships. Sweden will likely join NATO.
I'm not familiar enough with Danish communists to suggest who would be in charge, but I'm certain Stalin would find someone. Denmark wasn't that badly damaged by the war. By standard of living it'll probably be one of the best Warsaw Pact countries to live in. Of course it would still have huge repression for anyone who doesn't agree with the status quo.
It’s hard to imagine that Aksel Larsen would not become the leader of the Danish People’s Republic, if for no other reason than his popularity among the general population. While I like him, I think his legacy would suffer from the thing he would do as dictator of Denmark and what he would have to do to keep USSR happy.
Outside core Denmark, I expect USA to annex Greenland and Faroe Islands and Iceland to get independence. While the Danish border would be expanded southward.
Political in Denmark I expect that the communist would establish a Socialist Unity Party like in East Germany. I also expect them to set up puppet parties, the Social Liberals or the Liberals would become the Danish Land and Peasant Party, while the other would end up the Danish Liberal Party, I don’t see a Christian Democratic Party arise instead the Conservatives and other right wingers get their puppet party; the Danish National Party or the Danish Craftsmen and Artisan Party. As in East Germany they would get some seats in parliament but all elections will be jokes.
Political I expect agriculture will be dominated by the small farmers the Social Liberals traditionally represented and which were the base of the Danish rural left. This will keep Danish society far more rural than in OTL, but dominance of small free independent farmers, will also mean that Danish agriculture won’t be completely destroyed, I also expect a focus on agricultural export for foreign capital, beside that Denmark will have a large ship and shipping industry . As result of the more rural lifestyle Denmark will keep a high birthrate for longer, likely 2,5-3 children into the early 90ties. I also expect large scale land reclamation projects to get more soil to the Danish farmers.
As for Danish industrial production outside ship building, as a communist country there will be a focus on self sufficiency. So we would likely see Danish car, bus, truck and motorbikes brands. We can guess that the brands Nimbus (motorbikes), Triangle and DAB would stay around (at least until the Cold War ends [1]. I suspect that the car production will be relative small [2] and the focus will be on mass transit, motorbikes [3], bikes and vans. A important aspect in this is their military uses, DPR need to produce these thing for military use. Denmark will also keep it weapon industry around, we will see DISA keep producing and upgrade the different Madsen guns, we will likely also see Denmark producing artillery. Denmark is a too small country for an aviation industry. Outside this the Danish weapon industry will depend on what the Soviet plan for DPR to do in case of WWIII is.
DPR will likely have one of the biggest shipping industries among the Warsaw Pact countries, this will connect have two effects. The first one will be financial. As a relative small country with a lot of people traveling the world as sailors, Danes will be aware of Western consumer products and this will force the Danish regime to produce consumer products. So we will likely see the rise of Danish electronics industry, this is pretty similar to Hungary, the different is that Hungary did it for export reasons, DPR will need to do it for domestic reason and lessen smuggling into Denmark. It will have the added benefit of electronic being prefect for a resource poor country like Denmark.
The other aspect of Danish shipping will be that DPR will be involved in a lot of Soviet proxy conflicts abroad.
At last let’s look at energy, I think DPR will focus on nuclear energy, the lack of hydro power or fossil fuel means it’s simply easier to build nuclear power plants. Of course at some point oil will be found in the North Sea and with a worse Danish-Norwegian relationship Ekofisk will belong to Denmark and with a more southern Danish border, the German oil fields also falls in Danish hands, this will give DPR a significant source of capital when it need it the most in the late 80ties and will likely soften the fall of communism.
[1]trucks, buses and motorbikes are more likely to survive the fall of communism than cars.
[2] and likely to be pretty shitty car, best case is a Cold War Fiat and worst case is a Danish Trabant.
[3] Nimbus was in OTL a work vehicle meant as a replacement for a small van, if was a way for handyman to come out to customers and it often had unique sidecars.
Outside core Denmark, I expect USA to annex Greenland and Faroe Islands and Iceland to get independence. While the Danish border would be expanded southward.
Political in Denmark I expect that the communist would establish a Socialist Unity Party like in East Germany. I also expect them to set up puppet parties, the Social Liberals or the Liberals would become the Danish Land and Peasant Party, while the other would end up the Danish Liberal Party, I don’t see a Christian Democratic Party arise instead the Conservatives and other right wingers get their puppet party; the Danish National Party or the Danish Craftsmen and Artisan Party. As in East Germany they would get some seats in parliament but all elections will be jokes.
Political I expect agriculture will be dominated by the small farmers the Social Liberals traditionally represented and which were the base of the Danish rural left. This will keep Danish society far more rural than in OTL, but dominance of small free independent farmers, will also mean that Danish agriculture won’t be completely destroyed, I also expect a focus on agricultural export for foreign capital, beside that Denmark will have a large ship and shipping industry . As result of the more rural lifestyle Denmark will keep a high birthrate for longer, likely 2,5-3 children into the early 90ties. I also expect large scale land reclamation projects to get more soil to the Danish farmers.
As for Danish industrial production outside ship building, as a communist country there will be a focus on self sufficiency. So we would likely see Danish car, bus, truck and motorbikes brands. We can guess that the brands Nimbus (motorbikes), Triangle and DAB would stay around (at least until the Cold War ends [1]. I suspect that the car production will be relative small [2] and the focus will be on mass transit, motorbikes [3], bikes and vans. A important aspect in this is their military uses, DPR need to produce these thing for military use. Denmark will also keep it weapon industry around, we will see DISA keep producing and upgrade the different Madsen guns, we will likely also see Denmark producing artillery. Denmark is a too small country for an aviation industry. Outside this the Danish weapon industry will depend on what the Soviet plan for DPR to do in case of WWIII is.
DPR will likely have one of the biggest shipping industries among the Warsaw Pact countries, this will connect have two effects. The first one will be financial. As a relative small country with a lot of people traveling the world as sailors, Danes will be aware of Western consumer products and this will force the Danish regime to produce consumer products. So we will likely see the rise of Danish electronics industry, this is pretty similar to Hungary, the different is that Hungary did it for export reasons, DPR will need to do it for domestic reason and lessen smuggling into Denmark. It will have the added benefit of electronic being prefect for a resource poor country like Denmark.
The other aspect of Danish shipping will be that DPR will be involved in a lot of Soviet proxy conflicts abroad.
At last let’s look at energy, I think DPR will focus on nuclear energy, the lack of hydro power or fossil fuel means it’s simply easier to build nuclear power plants. Of course at some point oil will be found in the North Sea and with a worse Danish-Norwegian relationship Ekofisk will belong to Denmark and with a more southern Danish border, the German oil fields also falls in Danish hands, this will give DPR a significant source of capital when it need it the most in the late 80ties and will likely soften the fall of communism.
[1]trucks, buses and motorbikes are more likely to survive the fall of communism than cars.
[2] and likely to be pretty shitty car, best case is a Cold War Fiat and worst case is a Danish Trabant.
[3] Nimbus was in OTL a work vehicle meant as a replacement for a small van, if was a way for handyman to come out to customers and it often had unique sidecars.
This actually sounds like denmark would have a pretty good standard of living compared to other WP nations- maybe even comparable to the USSR's heyday?
USSR was one of the poorest and least developed WP countries, I expect DPR to be slightly poorer than East Germany at least until the late 80ties. In the late 80ties with the access to oil, we will see it overtake every WP country. That may risk being a curse in disguise, as it risk keep the regime in power and create the same Dutch disease USSR suffered under. But more likely the cultural similarity to Sweden and Norway will make Denmark reform using them as a model of good governance much as we saw Finland being a model for Estonia.
In general, I would expect DPR to be a very export orienteered economy, through the shipping and later oil/gas will be a major source of income. As such I could see Danish trucks and motorbikes being popular export goods and later electronics joining them.
A major question is what will happen to the Danish motorway net, the general plan for it was established in 1936 but the first one was only build in 1956. These have been a major factor in the economic development of Denmark. But a communist regime may focus more on the rail and sea transport, of course some will be built for military reasons. Of course, many of the traditional roads would still be useful and expanding the major ones into expressways would be cheaper and they would still be perfect for military uses.
No one of the big embarrassment of USSR was the fact that it was far poorer than its satellite states and people from the Warsaw Pact were banned from visiting USSR as tourist and the ones visiting for other reason only visited the more developed areas. As example Putin returned from East Germany as a KGB colonel, he brought washing machine with him, that was something which had been a basic consumer goods in East Germany since the 60ties.
Alternatehistoryhub has pretty bad takes, not as bad as Whatifalthist and Monsieur Z but still pretty awful and amatuer.
The more I think about, the less sure I am that Denmark would lose Greenland or even the Faroe Islands. What I could see instead is that USA keep basing rights in Greenland and Denmark have to keep Greenland demilitarized. Could be a pretty weird thing with a Warsaw Pact country with American military bases on its territory.
The reason I’m not sure it would be lost, would because USA did not treat USSR as a enemy from day one after the end of the war and the longer USA wait on annexing Greenland the harder it becomes from international law POV.
The reason I’m not sure it would be lost, would because USA did not treat USSR as a enemy from day one after the end of the war and the longer USA wait on annexing Greenland the harder it becomes from international law POV.
In case of USSR "liberating" Denmark, I think it's given that Stalin would make Denmark annex Schleswig-Holstein, the reason for this would be to establish a land border with East Germany and USSR having control over the Kiel Canal. I lean toward Holstein being ethnic cleansed, while South Schleswig won't because it's hard to differ between Danes, Germans, Frisians Danish speaking Germans, German speaking Danes, Danish speaking Frisians and German speaking Frisians in the region. Of course, a lot depend on the whether the new Danish regime having any influence on it, in that case I expect the ethnic cleansing to b limited as much as they can get away with, while if Soviet troops are doing it, no one will be left behind.
Much of the early post-war development will be like OTL, the same bureaucrats who have run Denmark under the war will be kept in place. So, we will see many of the same infrastructure projects continue, through now they also deal with integrating Schleswig-Holstein. DPR will stay a market economy under rationing early on as in OTL, a few big companies owned by the worst collaborators will be annexed by the state. Of course, this will change down the road. Some non-communist politicians will be arrested, but the new regime will likely do a lot to incorporate many into the new political system. I expect a lot of OTL Social Democratic post-War ministers to end up ministers in anyway just a part of the Socialist Unity Party, so a lot of the same politics will still be implemented just with more communist rhetoric and no need to compromise, the unions will also stay a major factors and while the regime will attempt to bring under their control, they will likely be one of the hardest opponents to deal with.
The big cooperatives will be another major factor, most of them was aligned with the liberals and not the socialists, but at the same time it makes a lot of sense to keep them around, even if they're a potential threat and often represent the petit bourgeois, simply because removing them will alienate the small farmers.
DPR differ from a lot of other communist countries because the new regime will have to deal with a strong civil society, a strong petit bourgeois class, a lot of cooperatives, strong unions, and a lot of civil institution which was set up to deal with the Conservative regime in the late 19th century. While the new regime can begin breaking skulls and getting rid of all these, it will be a clusterfuck, which will remove any legitimacy the new regime has.
Much of the early post-war development will be like OTL, the same bureaucrats who have run Denmark under the war will be kept in place. So, we will see many of the same infrastructure projects continue, through now they also deal with integrating Schleswig-Holstein. DPR will stay a market economy under rationing early on as in OTL, a few big companies owned by the worst collaborators will be annexed by the state. Of course, this will change down the road. Some non-communist politicians will be arrested, but the new regime will likely do a lot to incorporate many into the new political system. I expect a lot of OTL Social Democratic post-War ministers to end up ministers in anyway just a part of the Socialist Unity Party, so a lot of the same politics will still be implemented just with more communist rhetoric and no need to compromise, the unions will also stay a major factors and while the regime will attempt to bring under their control, they will likely be one of the hardest opponents to deal with.
The big cooperatives will be another major factor, most of them was aligned with the liberals and not the socialists, but at the same time it makes a lot of sense to keep them around, even if they're a potential threat and often represent the petit bourgeois, simply because removing them will alienate the small farmers.
DPR differ from a lot of other communist countries because the new regime will have to deal with a strong civil society, a strong petit bourgeois class, a lot of cooperatives, strong unions, and a lot of civil institution which was set up to deal with the Conservative regime in the late 19th century. While the new regime can begin breaking skulls and getting rid of all these, it will be a clusterfuck, which will remove any legitimacy the new regime has.
Nimbus is a motorcycle developed by the company Fisker & Nielsen, which is mostly known for their Nilfisk vacuum cleaners. In 1919 the company produced its first motorcycle. The first motorcycle was a economic failure and ended up discontinued in 1926. A new version (C) was build in 1932 and came into mass production by 1934. The biggest customer of the Nimbus C was the Danish state, which bought it to the police, postal service and army, through Yugoslavia also ordered a hundred military motorcycle, sadly Denm,ark was occupied before these could be delivered and they were used by the German army and Danish volunteers on the Eastern Front.
Military Nimbus C with mounted Madsen 2 mm machine gun.
After the the Communist regime took power in Denmark in 1947, the production of nimbuses was increased. While Fisker & Nielsen had not to be nationalized it was decided to establish a new separate public company to increase the production of the nimbus. The nimbus was seen both important as a way to motorize the army, but also to produce working vehicle to craftsmen.
Civilian Nimbus C with sidecar meant to transport equipment, tools, and light goods.
With few people being able to afford cars and the Danish car manufacturing focusing on trucks and buses, nimbus came into widespread use, while relative slow with a top speed of 85 km/h with side car and 120 km/h the motorcycle was also robust, easy to repair, and had a good gasolin economy. Nimbus would laos become one of the main producers of motors to the Danish produced cars. The Nimbus C model would end up with 150.000 produced by 1965, where it was replaced with new models. In the 70ties it was slowly outfased as a working motorcycle, through it stayed popular and nimbus saw significant export abroad and it kept being used by the army. A faster version was also produced to the police which saw some popularity abroad even in the West.
With the fall of the communist regime in 1989, nimbus saw some problems, but it use as a military vehicle resulted in the company surviving and staying under government control. Nimbus have kept producing motorcycles even today.
Electric Nimbus M
Military Nimbus C with mounted Madsen 2 mm machine gun.
After the the Communist regime took power in Denmark in 1947, the production of nimbuses was increased. While Fisker & Nielsen had not to be nationalized it was decided to establish a new separate public company to increase the production of the nimbus. The nimbus was seen both important as a way to motorize the army, but also to produce working vehicle to craftsmen.
Civilian Nimbus C with sidecar meant to transport equipment, tools, and light goods.
With few people being able to afford cars and the Danish car manufacturing focusing on trucks and buses, nimbus came into widespread use, while relative slow with a top speed of 85 km/h with side car and 120 km/h the motorcycle was also robust, easy to repair, and had a good gasolin economy. Nimbus would laos become one of the main producers of motors to the Danish produced cars. The Nimbus C model would end up with 150.000 produced by 1965, where it was replaced with new models. In the 70ties it was slowly outfased as a working motorcycle, through it stayed popular and nimbus saw significant export abroad and it kept being used by the army. A faster version was also produced to the police which saw some popularity abroad even in the West.
With the fall of the communist regime in 1989, nimbus saw some problems, but it use as a military vehicle resulted in the company surviving and staying under government control. Nimbus have kept producing motorcycles even today.
Electric Nimbus M
You dont you just support "decolonization from Europeans" when Koran war starts DPR is told by USN/USAF that trying to get past to land forces might not be wise, and the local native now sovereign government gives US basing rights in return for massive subsidies.....
This hits earlier issues that getting a WP Denmark is very hard and having the armies meeting near Berlin is almost certain as that where the Germans will fight the last battle, and they will send the limited reinforcements to the weaker front, so it will speed up the W allies for example if Soviets are doing better, that and GB will very strongly want Soviet fleet out so will make sure its negotiated to limit its ability to threaten UK coast from Danish ports and airfields.
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Devvy
Donor
Iceland was already independent (since 1918), and dropped the personal union with Denmark whilst Denmark was still under Nazi occupation. So little changes with regards to Iceland. It's still a western-orientated republic, and will likely join the western alliance (*NATO) upon it's creation, which I guess is even more imperative here if the Soviets are up to Denmark.
In the Faroes, given the interest in full independence but tiny population and strategic location (for military), my guess is that best compromise would be that the Faroes become an additional British Crown Dependency; complete self-autonomy with Britain only realistically maintaining defence and international relations.
For Greenland, the US has significant interest, so I'd guess that the US finds some convenient legal fiction, and just maintains it either de jure or de facto as a US territory.
In the Faroes, given the interest in full independence but tiny population and strategic location (for military), my guess is that best compromise would be that the Faroes become an additional British Crown Dependency; complete self-autonomy with Britain only realistically maintaining defence and international relations.
For Greenland, the US has significant interest, so I'd guess that the US finds some convenient legal fiction, and just maintains it either de jure or de facto as a US territory.
If Soviet manage to create the People Republic of Denmark
it will change drastic the power balance in Scandinavia, because Communist could block the Baltic Sea.
What hamper the economy of Sweden and Finland
Next to that would be fear of communist "contamination" from Denmark to Scandinavia.
in OTL Sweden and Finnland were Neutral from 1945 until 2022, after certain Vladimir P. from M, pull a Z...
Here it will be that Sweden and Finnland join NATO in 1949, it realistic that both went with close cooperation with Norway.
(Sweden was older neutral but this cold war senario)
Long term Impact:
Sweden work on Atomic Bomb but abandon the project, here they will complete the program and test the bomb!
build series of small tactical battlefield Nukes and big ones for deterrence reason,
This include development of the supersonic bomber Saab 36.
Other things
The USA will take Greenland in "trusteeship" to protect it from evil Communist.
it would be ironic if WW2 danish government in exile, settle in last remains of old Denmark, who now part of NATO.
CIA will conduct conceal operation to prevent "contamination" from Denmark to Scandinavia.
Similar what they dit in Italy by manipulate the election to make sure that no " leftist" rules in Scandinavia.
This cold also let to more sinister operations like Gladio were CIA,
recruit far-right and neo-nazis to fight Communism, who conduct act of terror in Europe...
And Denmark ?
As important bridge head, Stalin will do everything to keep it !
Install a Oppressive Stalinist Government with leader that obey Stalin with out questions,
high number of Red Army bases in Denmark like East Germany.
it very realistic that People Republic of Denmark will become like East Germany,
A Oppressive Stalinist State with very efficient state security service like the STASI or the Securitate.
There will be 1950s uprise like in Hungary and East Germany but that will be bloody suppressed by Red Army.
This let to massive fleeing of danish from Denmark, in other word boat people.
Do Denmark geographic people will escape over water to Scandinavia, West Germany and Netherlands.
with all the problems connected to it.
but in 1989 this all will change with collapse of East Block.
Denmark do it Oppressive Stalinist Government will have very bloody revolution like Romania.
it could even went so far that Denmark territory disintegrate,
That Sjælland or Bomholm demand to join Sweden
or that Nordslesvig reunite with the German Schleswig-Holstein.
it will change drastic the power balance in Scandinavia, because Communist could block the Baltic Sea.
What hamper the economy of Sweden and Finland
Next to that would be fear of communist "contamination" from Denmark to Scandinavia.
in OTL Sweden and Finnland were Neutral from 1945 until 2022, after certain Vladimir P. from M, pull a Z...
Here it will be that Sweden and Finnland join NATO in 1949, it realistic that both went with close cooperation with Norway.
(Sweden was older neutral but this cold war senario)
Long term Impact:
Sweden work on Atomic Bomb but abandon the project, here they will complete the program and test the bomb!
build series of small tactical battlefield Nukes and big ones for deterrence reason,
This include development of the supersonic bomber Saab 36.
Other things
The USA will take Greenland in "trusteeship" to protect it from evil Communist.
it would be ironic if WW2 danish government in exile, settle in last remains of old Denmark, who now part of NATO.
CIA will conduct conceal operation to prevent "contamination" from Denmark to Scandinavia.
Similar what they dit in Italy by manipulate the election to make sure that no " leftist" rules in Scandinavia.
This cold also let to more sinister operations like Gladio were CIA,
recruit far-right and neo-nazis to fight Communism, who conduct act of terror in Europe...
And Denmark ?
As important bridge head, Stalin will do everything to keep it !
Install a Oppressive Stalinist Government with leader that obey Stalin with out questions,
high number of Red Army bases in Denmark like East Germany.
it very realistic that People Republic of Denmark will become like East Germany,
A Oppressive Stalinist State with very efficient state security service like the STASI or the Securitate.
There will be 1950s uprise like in Hungary and East Germany but that will be bloody suppressed by Red Army.
This let to massive fleeing of danish from Denmark, in other word boat people.
Do Denmark geographic people will escape over water to Scandinavia, West Germany and Netherlands.
with all the problems connected to it.
but in 1989 this all will change with collapse of East Block.
Denmark do it Oppressive Stalinist Government will have very bloody revolution like Romania.
it could even went so far that Denmark territory disintegrate,
That Sjælland or Bomholm demand to join Sweden
or that Nordslesvig reunite with the German Schleswig-Holstein.
After fall of communism Danes would likely emigrate to culturally close but much wealthier Sweden and Norway in large numbers (like Estonians migrating to Finland IOTL).
Yes, it’s pretty much given, there will likely be an outflow of at least a half million people. The limiting factor will be that Denmark will develop faster than most former Communist countries thanks to it connecting the Nordic and West European market and income from the North Sea oil.
I have to ask, since we saw what happened in Hungary and Czechoslovakia, but would the Soviet Union also invade Denmark due to them not being in lockstep with Moscow in terms of how they run their country?
Well, Denmark also has the matter of distance, which saved Albania and limited the Soviets in other dissenters. The Soviets obviously would have the navy to put it down but that takes time