WI: Colonies were given equal rights

[LaSlavic86]

I saw that there were a lot of Thread about europeans maintaining their empire by avoiding the worlds wars but this will only delay the inevitable. Some suggested that the colonies were given equal voting rights and citizenship. Good solution since it work with some of french old colonies such as French Guayana. But there are some problems such as the fact that most of the colonies outnumber there colonial masters (I think Germany and Italy were the only ones that didn't got outnumbered) and center of power would shift to other areas. Now I wonder nie it is possible to give the Colonies equal rights and citizenship without being outnumbered and your power shifting to your colonies and avoiding world wars

 

[Flocculencio]

The problem is that genuinely giving your colonies equal rights negates the value of colonies as easily exploitable captive markets.

It's telling that it only ever really happened in relatively insignificant places like French Guyana or the Dutch ABC islands, which were and are pretty much dependent on the metropole.

 

[longsword14]

The problem is that genuinely giving your colonies equal rights negates the value of colonies as easily exploitable captive markets.

A better reason could be to use colonies for cheaper resources (from material to labour), but it will create serious backlashes in home waters. For all the talk about globalisation being bad, it is possibly the quickest way of dragging ex-colonies from the ground, making profit along the way.

 

[Anaxagoras]

The British Empire becomes the Indian Empire.

 

[Flocculencio]

A better reason could be to use colonies for cheaper resources (from material to labour), but it will create serious backlashes in home waters. For all the talk about globalisation being bad, it is possibly the quickest way of dragging ex-colonies from the ground, making profit along the way.

Yes but as you pointed out, this won't fly back home.

 

[LaSlavic86]

The problem is that genuinely giving your colonies equal rights negates the value of colonies as easily exploitable captive markets.

Yes but that only works in profitable colonies such as India or Indonesia(I think). Most of africa wasn't profitable

 

[LaSlavic86]

The British Empire becomes the Indian Empire.

Maybe with ghandi has prime minister. But this is what I want to avoid (the British Empire becoming the Indian empire; the Duch empire becoming the Indonesian Empire, the Belgium Empire becoming the Congolese empire; the Portuguese empire becoming the Portuguese african empire and the French colonial empire becoming the French african and Indochina se Empire) Somehow

 

[Alexander the Average]

Well they wouldn't really be colonies then.

 

[Undeadmuffin]

Make them ''dominion'', or self-governing colonies that are linked to your economic sphere and military alliance but are independant politicaly

 

[GeographyDude]

if you base representation on the number of people who vote . . . Even without tricks, for people who haven't voted, takes a while getting used to it and this will buy you some time.

And maybe the end game is to remain friendly trading partners?

 

[TRH]

Yes but that only works in profitable colonies such as India or Indonesia(I think). Most of africa wasn't profitable

I'm not sure that takes private profit into account as well, though. The governments might not have made money, but they'd suck it up if it meant that corporate interests could turn enough profit in their stead.

 

[RousseauX]

I saw that there were a lot of Thread about europeans maintaining their empire by avoiding the worlds wars but this will only delay the inevitable. Some suggested that the colonies were given equal voting rights and citizenship. Good solution since it work with some of french old colonies such as French Guayana. But there are some problems such as the fact that most of the colonies outnumber there colonial masters (I think Germany and Italy were the only ones that didn't got outnumbered) and center of power would shift to other areas. Now I wonder nie it is possible to give the Colonies equal rights and citizenship without being outnumbered and your power shifting to your colonies and avoiding world wars

The problem is that there's roughly 0% chance either the political elites nor the ordinary citizen of France wants any of their laws to be voted on by non-whites in Africa or Vietnam

 

[naraic]

For Britain you can't have a unified democratic entity without becoming an Indian empire. I can see a situation where the white Dominions get voting rights in a Imperial federation with maybe a few smaller 'non-white' states eventually also joining as full members but you will never have anot Indian empire accepted.

 

[Flocculencio]

Yes but that only works in profitable colonies such as India or Indonesia(I think). Most of africa wasn't profitable

You're right- Britain's African colonies were valuable based on their position to control trade routes to the profitable colonies in India and Malaya, although in many cases they did have potential for primary resource industries, and nevertheless were still a captive market for English goods

 

[Flocculencio]

Make them ''dominion'', or self-governing colonies that are linked to your economic sphere and military alliance but are independant politicaly

As you can see from Australia and Canada, what happens then is that they will inevitably pursue their specific economic interests for their own reasons.

 

[Undeadmuffin]

As you can see from Australia and Canada, what happens then is that they will inevitably pursue their specific economic interests for their own reasons.

To be fair, Canada had the ''''misfortune'''' (maximum quotation) to be next to a bigger economic pole (just as Australia also aligned itself on the US after WW2)
''Black Dominion'' in Africa could be kept more aligned with the metropole

 

[Flocculencio]

To be fair, Canada had the ''''misfortune'''' (maximum quotation) to be next to a bigger economic pole (just as Australia also aligned itself on the US after WW2)
''Black Dominion'' in Africa could be kept more aligned with the metropole

I'm not sure it would be that easy. Remember those lucrative raw materials? If you're directly controlling your African territory as a colony you can make sure your own economic intetests get served, but if you give them self government, what happens when an American conglomerate makes a better offer for their manganese lr whatever?

 

[LaSlavic86]

I'm not sure it would be that easy. Remember those lucrative raw materials? If you're directly controlling your African territory as a colony you can make sure your own economic intetests get served, but if you give them self government, what happens when an American conglomerate makes a better offer for their manganese lr whatever?

Well you're right that is a problem, but what about the statute of Wesminster 1931, that gave the dominion power to break away politically away from the Uk. If they hadn't pass the act they would still have some political controlled over there dominions, right?

 

[LaSlavic86]

If the europeans created these dominions in Africa would they have given the political power to the whites or the Africans with both having Full Vonting rights. Also how would the Portuguese; Belgians; French and British living in africa and in the Metropole fell if this happen?

 

[Flocculencio]

Well you're right that is a problem, but what about the statute of Wesminster 1931, that gave the dominion power to break away politically away from the Uk. If they hadn't pass the act they would still have some political controlled over there dominions, right?

Theoretically but assuming a similar scenario plays out for WW2, dominions like Australia, and probably New Zealand are going to be extremely resentful at the perception that they're left hanging while their troops are used to defend British interests in North Africa.

IOTL, a huge number of Aussies got sent to Singapore without sufficient training and equipment and were taken prisoner. IOTL, Australia had self government. In a TL where Australia is still more directly governed from Westminster I can see this as being the kernel of a much more adversarial self government movement just as it was in British Malaya and the Straits Settlements.