WI: Clerical marriage in medieval England

[Velasco]

Today I stumbled across Robert II, Archbishop of Rouen and Count of Évreux. He died in 1037, when his great-nephew and suzerain William the Bastard, Duke of Normandy, was about six or seven. Robert was one of William's greatest political supporters and, curiously enough, a married man with several children.

His sons had secular careers inheriting Évreux, and he was followed as Archbishop of Rouen by a nephew, Mauger of Normandy, aged 18.

Mauger fell out with William, was exiled and died in ignominy c. 1055, shortly after William had an ecclesiastical council depose him for inappropriate conduct c. 1054-1055.

Story goes that Mauger had a (nameless) common-law wife and children by her.

His successor as Archbishop was Maurilius, a former hermit and supporter of the Gregorian reforms (a major Papal push against clerical marriage, amongst other things). Maurilius was followed in 1067 by John of Avranches, a major supporter of clerical celibacy who was stoned (!!!) for this at a provincial synod and had to flee for his life, which presumably evidences widespred support among the Norman clergy for marriage.

Indeed, as late as 1084 the Norman Herfast, Bishop of Thetford, was a married bishop in England.

Haven't been able to find much on married Archbishops of Canterbury and/or York, but with the Norman Conquest, the possibility does seem to be there....

What if Mauger never fell out with his nephew, subsequently living longer, and William the Conqueror never had a reason to move in the direction of reforming bishops?

What are the chances of clerical marriage being preserved in medieval England?


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[DrakeRlugia]

Well, clerical marriage existed across Europe, not just in medieval England. There's abundant testimony that relates to married clergy as late as the 12th century. That's not to mention the irregular relationships and concubinage that existed. We know of plenty of sexually active Popes, either before / during their pontificate into the sixteenth century. If clerical marriage is preserved in medieval England, it's likely to been preserved across the Catholic Christendom (unless we have some situation with some sort of schism, of course). We also have situations where men would take holy orders after their wives died or they were widowed, which would end up with priests or bishops having children. Curiously, sometimes these children would all be pushed to enter into the priesthood as well, or enter convents / nunneries if they were women, though this wasn't always the case.

Obviously the wealth and strength of the Medieval church meant that there was great concern over married priests. Some feared that their ecclesiastical domains might be turned into hereditary ones: if that truly happened, what would stop a hereditary bishop from declaring himself a lord, removing himself from church authority and placing himself under a secular suzerain?

Mauger's position would probably be difficult to keep, given that his relationship with William wasn't good. He opposed his marriage to Matilda, and then of course his brother started up a rebellion against William. I don't think the pair were very fast friends, even if his brother's revolt didn't help matters, his familial connection made him a target and easy opponent to get rid of.

 

[jacob ningen]

In a non serious answer, my Pride and Prejudice ships to give the Lucas-Collins-Bennet-Gardner-Darcy-DeBourgh-Bingley coalition more land than George occurs much earlier. Admittedly im working off fiction not historically one issue is going to be holdings, so if some agreement that church property is excluded from wills, it might last longer.

 

[Velasco]

In a non serious answer, my Pride and Prejudice ships to give the Lucas-Collins-Bennet-Gardner-Darcy-DeBourgh-Bingley coalition more land than George occurs much earlier. Admittedly im working off fiction not historically one issue is going to be holdings, so if some agreement that church property is excluded from wills, it might last longer.

Who is George?

 

[jacob ningen]

Who is George?

third hanover george ie farmer george ie the king who lost america and his mind george III

 

[Viking25]

Haven't been able to find much on married Archbishops of Canterbury and/or York, but with the Norman Conquest, the possibility does seem to be there....

Harold Godwinson at least practiced straight up polygamy so a married Priest certainly isn’t out of the realms of possibility if he wins at Hastings or even dies to Hadradda at Stamford because I can’t see him being any stricter on this kind of thing considering he served in Byzantine Empire where priestly marriage was very common and himself was succeeded by his heirs by a paramour. William himself was something of an advocate for the movement of Clerical Reform that clamped down on things like this and his heirs seem to have been of a similar persuasions so butterflying the Norman Conquest is probably your best bet tbh.

 

[naraic]

Pope Gregory VII 1073-1085 was the popes that drove home clerical celibacy in a big way. Before that it was an ideal but it was quiet common for priests to be married or to have mistresses.

One of the things he did was write an encyclical that was circulated to the nobility priests of europe that if the priests were married then the priest could be denied all income. He also freed people from obedience to bishops that allowed married priests.

 

[mrmandias]

I think it would be possible to have England/Normandy more recalcitrant about married priests and lagging behind the rest of Europe, but eventually the papacy would bring them to heel.