I didnt know people with an opinion like yours still exist on this site.
It's pretty much entirely counterfactual, based on propaganda and tabloids, usually fed by British politicians who love to blame the result of their own decisions on the EU.What, what's so unreasonable about the comment?
It's pretty much entirely counterfactual, based on propaganda and tabloids, usually fed by British politicians who love to blame the result of their own decisions on the EU.
Rufus couldnt have said it better:What, what's so unreasonable about the comment?
It's pretty much entirely counterfactual, based on propaganda and tabloids, usually fed by British politicians who love to blame the result of their own decisions on the EU.
This conveniently forgets that some pretty huge concessions were made to the Danes between the first and second referendum- not least the ability to opt out of the single currency. The public voiced their concerns over certain aspects of the treaty, significant changes were made to reflect those, and they then gave their approval of their own free will-a fact which is seemingly ignored by most eurosceptics. I'd say that it quite the opposite of being undemocratic.The EU - or rather the EEC - would do what they always do. Change a few words on the treaty and try and get it through the back door.
Or they'd just hold the referendum again and again until they get the result they want. A la Ireland and the Euro and the Danes on other matters. The European Project *will* go forward and fuck the will of the people.
Whilst I agree that the whole thing would have some very interesting political consequences going forward, I think it is probably too late for a Benn leadership by this point. The man was very much in the wilderness at this point, and his party was firmly shifting toward the more moderate pro-European factions. Smith would most likely stay as leader even if the referendum was lost, (though he maybe slightly diminished figure) and whoever succeeds him a couple of years later would have campaigned for yes.In regard to the post. There is a very real chance that if the uk parliament did not ratify the treaty. Then it would have brought down the conservative government of the day. And if it was done with Labour party suport. It could have devastating effects on both main partys . With possible cross party problems we see presently . I dont know who would win out. But i promise you that what ever happened. I would shatter the political consensus if the day.
And the UK could have left the EEC twenty years earlier. I dont know what that would have meant for the economy or party politics over the last thirty years.
Perhaps Tony ben as Labour leader. And perhaps the blairites forming a new party. And god knows what would have happened to the conservative party. The whole thing would be an itresting time line.
Amusingly, these quotes come from British media. The most amusing thing is that it comes from the same media who are pretty much pushing hard for the solutions that involve the biggest losses of sovereignty, particularly when one looks at the trade deals the Brexiters want to negotiate with the US that make Brussels look like a bunch of libertarians.Juncker said that the reason the Frence and Dutch rejected the Treaty was because they in fact supported deeper integration than was being proposed.
He explained the introduction of the Euro thus: "We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back,"
He described the Lisbon Treaty thus: "Britain is different. Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?There is a single legal personality for the EU, the primacy of European law, a new architecture for foreign and security policy, there is an enormous extension in the fields of the EU's powers, there is Charter of Fundamental Rights."
When asked why he denied holding a meeting about Greece's Eurozone future: "When it becomes serious, you have to lie."
So I mean if we're talking about dishonesty...
UK gets less and less relevant on an economic point of view, is increasingly dependent on unequal trade deals with the US, Japan, China and the EU. UK on its own is uncompetitive, lacks technological sovereignty, has too small an internal market for remaining a power capable of deciding of its own future.So can some of the posters on this tread exspain what any of there many posts on this tread got to do with the origanal qurstion.
What happens if the UK dose not sign in to law the Maastricht treaty.
Perhaps you could try and exsplain some of the short and long term ramifications of such an event. Perhaps going into the economic effect on the uk and the then eec!
Amusingly, these quotes come from British media. The most amusing thing is that it comes from the same media who are pretty much pushing hard for the solutions that involve the biggest losses of sovereignty, particularly when one looks at the trade deals the Brexiters want to negotiate with the US that make Brussels look like a bunch of libertarians.
UK gets less and less relevant on an economic point of view, is increasingly dependent on unequal trade deals with the US, Japan, China and the EU.
Yep. And considering that googling these quotes don't show much outside British media and tabloids, who make a constant habit of peddling propaganda...I would be interested to see if Juncker actually said this quotes, and in what context.
For the question at hand, the elements that applies to Brexit now would apply a few years earlier to UK. Less immediate economic shock to the country due to lower levels of integration, but very much the same end result in terms of being vassalized by larger economic groups due to being insignificant on its own. A few decades of progressively harsher trade deals putting the US under US, Japanese, Chinese and European thumb.There are too many on this site who stand on the EU soap box banging their drum! Take it to chat or politics and be careful of the name calling!
Only because the EU forced Britain to cut ties to trade in the Commonwealth, which at the time forced up the cost of common commodities and the collapse of some industries!For the question at hand, the elements that applies to Brexit now would apply a few years earlier to UK. Less immediate economic shock to the country due to lower levels of integration, but very much the same end result in terms of being vassalized by larger economic groups due to being insignificant on its own. A few decades of progressively harsher trade deals putting the US under US, Japanese, Chinese and European thumb.
Without the European market, the entire concept of the City for being competitive in finance collapses pretty fast. And thanks to Thatcher, British industry is an oxymoron.
Ha ha, no. The Commonwealth left UK on its own, because UK was becoming irrelevant anyway and because the US simply barged in and took over UK's place with them. Canada was never going to be a massive trade partner with UK for long when its geographic position makes it a perfect partner for the US.Only because the EU forced Britain to cut ties to trade in the Commonwealth, which at the time forced up the cost of common commodities and the collapse of some industries!
Rufus couldnt have said it better:
But I want to add something: The European Commission has a databank containing myths about the EU.
https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/
Pretty much every contribution comes from the UK,
ranging from the outlawing of British Acorn to forcing every zoo in Europe to have an Elephant as a symbol. This databank goes back decades, so when I read something like the Irish referendum myth again & again & again I can rightly say that a lot of anti EU sentiment comes from brainwashing.
Amusingly, these quotes come from British media.
Yep. And considering that googling these quotes don't show much outside British media and tabloids, who make a constant habit of peddling propaganda...
Look You like the EU I dislike the EU and it's pernicious rules and pickpocketing of Britain, France and Germany have what they wanted dominion over Europe something that Hitler and Napoleon (both suffering from small man syndrome) were unable to do militarily. So all the Eu supporters can form a circle and enjoy themselves!Ha ha, no. The Commonwealth left UK on its own, because UK was becoming irrelevant anyway and because the US simply barged in and took over UK's place with them. Canada was never going to be a massive trade partner with UK for long when its geographic position makes it a perfect partner for the US.
UK tends to seriously overinflate its own role in the world: from 1945 onwards, it was the US in charge where Canada, NZ and Australia are involved, UK's place for them shrinking naturally due to its increasing irrelevance on its own.
*rolls eyes*Look You like the EU I dislike the EU and it's pernicious rules and pickpocketing of Britain, France and Germany have what they wanted dominion over Europe something that Hitler and Napoleon (both suffering from small man syndrome) were unable to do militarily. So all the Eu supporters can form a circle and enjoy themselves!
Well you got us there. Our endgoal is to turn England into a colony, Juncker couldnt just keep his mouth shut.-snip-
Well you got us there. Our endgoal is to turn England into a colony,
Juncker couldnt just keep his mouth shut.
More seriously, though, the Suez Crisis was the final hammer in the coffin of any hope France or UK could have to be treated as equals to the largest economic/military powers. France went the way of the EU while UK has been oscillating between some sort of vassalization to the US (being massively dependent on US technology for strategic sovereign systems, for example) and going towards the EU (even if France didn't want the UK at start, which is a really counterproductive move if the goal was to exploit poor Britannia). Any country moving away from the EU common market and capability to negotiate as a whole with other countries... well, they end up being targeted by this: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/us-lobbyists-brexit_uk_5c5b26c6e4b00187b5579f64Well you got us there. Our endgoal is to turn England into a colony, Juncker couldnt just keep his mouth shut.