WI Britain never agrees to Masstricht treaty

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Galba Otho Vitelius, Aug 13, 2019.

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  1. Galba Otho Vitelius Well-Known Member

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    What would have happened if the UK had never agreed to the Masstricht treaty (and presumably Lisbon as well). Say Major calls a referendum on the treaty and the treaty loses.
     
  2. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    All had to agree to the treaties, if the United Kingdom rejects them they're dead. The E.E.C. never turns into the E.U. and presumably there's no common currency.
     
  3. Galba Otho Vitelius Well-Known Member

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    Was expelling the UK an option?
     
  4. The Wooksta! Resident soup dragon

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    The EU - or rather the EEC - would do what they always do. Change a few words on the treaty and try and get it through the back door.

    Or they'd just hold the referendum again and again until they get the result they want. A la Ireland and the Euro and the Danes on other matters. The European Project *will* go forward and fuck the will of the people.
     
  5. oberdada Präsident des Welt- und Erdenballs

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    Soft Option: Do a treaty a long the 11, as is was done in OTL in social Policy.

    Nuclear Option: disband and form anew without the UK.

    Expelling wasn't an option.


    (Have put the hater on my ignore list)
     
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  6. MrHaakwood Well-Known Member

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    I didnt know people with an opinion like yours still exist on this site.
     
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  7. Glyndwr01 Well-Known Member

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    More than you think!
     
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  8. The Wooksta! Resident soup dragon

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    Wasn't it Peter Mandelson - then an EU Kommissar - who said that the Irish or the Danes (I forget which) would have to hold the referendum again "until they give the correct answer"?

    And for the record, I don't hate the EU - I hate Britain's continued membership of it.
     
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  9. MrHaakwood Well-Known Member

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    Years after years of debunking anti EU BS in the various Brexit threads let me to the futile hope that this might not be the case. Sadly, I always had the suspicion that these members just migrated to other threads to spread their disease. But its my mistake. I always regarded Brexiters & the various anti EU members as people with just a different, but missinformed opinion. Perhaps its time to regard some of their positions more like AntiVaxxers?
     
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  10. InvaderX Well-Known Member

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    Antivaxxers actually kill people with their stupid and uneducated opinions. You don't really get to compare people who disagree with you to people who are actually dangerous to not only public health but human lives.
     
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  11. new statesman Well-Known Member

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    De humanizing people who have a different opinon to you is intolerant. And frankly lazy!

    In regard to the post. There is a very real chance that if the uk parliament did not ratify the treaty. Then it would have brought down the conservative government of the day. And if it was done with Labour party suport. It could have devastating effects on both main partys . With possible cross party problems we see presently . I dont know who would win out. But i promise you that what ever happened. I would shatter the political consensus if the day.

    And the UK could have left the EEC twenty years earlier. I dont know what that would have meant for the economy or party politics over the last thirty years.

    Perhaps Tony ben as Labour leader. And perhaps the blairites forming a new party. And god knows what would have happened to the conservative party. The whole thing would be an itresting time line.

    What i can sy is this the EEC would have continued without the UK. Im not sure if i it would be as large as it is now. Or if it would have had such an easy ride with greater integration of pan European projects. And it could have lost one or two more mebers. Probably the Irish republic. Because of how closely tied it is to the uk economy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  12. Derek Pullem Butterfly Killer

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    Chat don't you think?
     
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  13. new statesman Well-Known Member

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    Yes!
     
  14. HJ Tulp Vice Admiral, Eutopian Navy

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    I suggest you spend some time to actually research what happened in Ireland and Denmark before sprouting this kind nonsense.

    What happened in this countries was that there was a referendum after which the people were actually consulted. Modifications were made and there was a referendum again. The second time the people gave their consent. This is the way a referendum works. Maybe Britain should learn a lesson or two from the Irish and the Danes.
     
  15. Rufus Shinra Statistical unlikeliness

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    And why did they give consent? Because the modifications were made on the very subjects that were opposed initially by the people, AKA the people's opinion was listened carefully and influenced the final text. That's called democracy.
     
  16. HJ Tulp Vice Admiral, Eutopian Navy

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    Exactly, thanks for clarifying :)
     
  17. Rufus Shinra Statistical unlikeliness

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    I felt it necessary because while you knew it, the anti-EU crowd tends to deliberately forget about that point and claims that the EU make people vote again and again until they say yes.
     
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  18. MrHaakwood Well-Known Member

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    Last time I checked AntiVaxxers where humans not Chihuahuas.

    Its almost like a faith based worldview tends to ignore contradictory information...just like AntiVaxxers do, hmm. No that I would imply here something....
     
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  19. RPW@Cy Well-Known Member

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    I suspect you're thinking of Juncker's "If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue'" response to France calling a referendum on the European constitution which was replaced with the completely unrelated[/sarc] Treaty of Lisbon after the French rejected it.
     
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  20. Rufus Shinra Statistical unlikeliness

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    The Treaty of Lisbon is quite different from the Treaty for a European Constitution, both in scope and content.
     
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