WI:Anne Boleyn dies 1532.
- Thread starter Wildcard F. Kennedy
- Start date
Okay, I rolled. But you'll have to wait until September for the birth of Henry's & Hedwig's child.
May – June 1535
Lady Elizabeth FitzRoy made her appearance on the second of May, beating her cousin John into the world by four days. Both children were hale and hearty and doing well with their wetnurses. The christenings for both were well attended, although the Queen did not come in person: she deputized the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk to act in her stead as godmother for her step-daughter’s son. Henry had been careful not offend the Queen by favoring FitzRoy’s child over that of the Princess Mary’s; Hedwig had made it clear that while she knew the King was proud of his son, a legitimate daughter should not slighted.
Cromwell requested permission to begin ‘informal’ surveys of the monasteries and convents; he and the King had discussed the matter when the Lady Anne had been alive but the subject had been dropped in the aftermath of her death. He had been turned down just before the now-Queen’s arrival, but judged that the impending birth of the new heir (hopefully a Prince of Wales) would incline the King to action in this arena. The King kept him waiting for a fortnight before granting the permission, but limiting it to reports on income, the number of monks/nuns within each establishment, and the area of the kingdom each served. For now, the king forbade the total investigation that had been mooted in the discussions with the late Anne. Her death seemed to take the wind out of the king’s interest in religious reform. Cromwell told himself that he would find a way to include tales of the immorality of monks and nuns anyway.
The order received for the defrocking of the Archbishop of Canterbury included his excommunication. There was a debate as to whether he should be tried for heresy, but the King, in deference to his Queen (who felt sorry for his wife Margarete, who had a daughter by Cranmer), had him sent out of the country to join his wife with only the clothes on his back.
May – June 1535
Lady Elizabeth FitzRoy made her appearance on the second of May, beating her cousin John into the world by four days. Both children were hale and hearty and doing well with their wetnurses. The christenings for both were well attended, although the Queen did not come in person: she deputized the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk to act in her stead as godmother for her step-daughter’s son. Henry had been careful not offend the Queen by favoring FitzRoy’s child over that of the Princess Mary’s; Hedwig had made it clear that while she knew the King was proud of his son, a legitimate daughter should not slighted.
Cromwell requested permission to begin ‘informal’ surveys of the monasteries and convents; he and the King had discussed the matter when the Lady Anne had been alive but the subject had been dropped in the aftermath of her death. He had been turned down just before the now-Queen’s arrival, but judged that the impending birth of the new heir (hopefully a Prince of Wales) would incline the King to action in this arena. The King kept him waiting for a fortnight before granting the permission, but limiting it to reports on income, the number of monks/nuns within each establishment, and the area of the kingdom each served. For now, the king forbade the total investigation that had been mooted in the discussions with the late Anne. Her death seemed to take the wind out of the king’s interest in religious reform. Cromwell told himself that he would find a way to include tales of the immorality of monks and nuns anyway.
The order received for the defrocking of the Archbishop of Canterbury included his excommunication. There was a debate as to whether he should be tried for heresy, but the King, in deference to his Queen (who felt sorry for his wife Margarete, who had a daughter by Cranmer), had him sent out of the country to join his wife with only the clothes on his back.
I was afraid you were going to ask that......I've got so many TLs going on (my bad), that I haven't had time. Is anyone interested in doing the research? Irish or English would be acceptable. And if I need to (retro) butterfly Silken Thomas, it can be done.
What about the bloke that Anne Boleyn would have perhaps married? James Butler or whatever his name was?
Hmmm. He married OTL in 1532, but he does have a younger brother who is the right age. Thanks, Blue.
She was betrothed to Will Dormer (father of the duchess of Feria OTL (who Felipe II almost appointed governor of the Low Countries)) when the scandal over her dad and sister-in-law blew up. Now, Dormer is related to the king through a shared grandmother in Jacquetta of Luxemburg.
That would be funny - if Janey produces a daughter who somehow becomes governor of the Low Countries and by said appointment disseminates Jane's blood over Europe. A bunch of pasty-faced, crying, staring Janes or priggish Catholic Edwards running amok in the courts of Europe would be interesting in the Chinese sense. (DISCLAIMER: Yes, I know Edward's priggishness was due to his education, so it's pretty specific. But still...)
You're assuming Jane's DNA will prevail over the Dormer ones. (Although, if the scandal about her father and sister-in-law were the reason the Dormer family broke it off, their kids will be so priggish that no one can stand them!) But if that were the case, Dormer won't want Jane (as she's 'used goods' at this point). What do you think?
Not sure why Jane'd be used goods, scandal over her sister-in-law and father aside. Its not as though Jane was the one caught with her father-in-law in the hayloft. Besides, her sisters Liz and Dorothy, while not marrying "grandly" (a la Boleyn), didn't do too badly. I guess one could let Jane be the one to marry Greg Cromwell or John Paulet instead of Liz. Cromwell/Paulet's "new" money, the Seymour aren't as well connected as their Boleyn cousins, so while it's a mésalliance, all things considered, better to be Mrs Gregory Cromwell/Lady St. John (which I could imagine would command more respect) than simply being John Seymour of Wulfhall's unwed/spinster daughter.
She's known to be the king's mistress. Lack of virginity makes you used goods back then.
Couldn't/didn't the king often arrange marriages for his unwed mistresses when he "pensioned" them off? So Jane could do reasonably well out of the whole mistress thing in such a scenario. Don't say Henry'll be handing her a duke (Norfolk is married, Suffolk is unlikely (although I would be very interested in seeing a TL where that relationship with their different personalities goes off) since the man's on wife no. 4/5 at the moment, depending how you count them (although Liz Seymour's first husband is brother to Suffolk's 2e wife, mother of his eldest two daughters); and Richmond's too young), and the only marquesses are Dorset and (I think Exeter).
But weren't the Seymours rumoured/were Catholics? I know Jane preferred Mary to Elizabeth, and she was more loyal to Katherine of Aragon than Anne Boleyn. So it begs the question of how they would see Queen Hedwig (how would one Anglicize Jadwyga?)
I think Jane would be prefering Hedwig over Anne. The Seymors depended for royal favour for their rise to power.
Indeed, Blue, she does (good catch), but she realizes she's not going to get the King the way Anne was trying to, ergo, she settled for mistress (hoping for a titled husband a la Bessie). Hedwig is royal, she understands the husbands straying bit and knows how to take it. She and Jane are formal with one another, but cordial and there are no scenes. (Hedwig, unlike Katherine of Aragon, hasn't had enough time to be passionately in love with Henry and doesn't make a drama about it the way KoA did the first time or two it happened.)
I actually thought about Jane for Brandon, but.....while he's the charming sort of man she'd like, Brandon seems to have liked his wives pretty. This makes the lovely Eleanora perfect and a surprise (because she's intelligent and talented, to boot). Both Edward and Jane are soon to be married (not to one another), via their connections at court.
Hedwig resembled greatly her mother Barbara Zapolya. Shy and submissive and disinterested in politics. Barbara was Sigismund's beloved wife, they separated for first time two and half year after their wedding when Sigismund went to war against Muscovy, otherwise they were always together and King (and people) deeply mourned her death. But Sigismund was definitely not the same kind of man as Henry...
July – December 1535
The Duke of Suffolk was back at court, with the news that Eleanora was expected to deliver his child in late November or early December. The Earl of Wiltshire was also back at court, looking for a suitable husband for his remaining daughter Mary and to discuss the lack of an heir with his son – an Earldom was no good without an heir to continue it, he reminded George.
August brought the confinement of the Queen. The babe was due towards the end of the month and all ceremony was observed as she began the ritual withdrawal to await the birth. The King spent his time hunting and enjoying the favors of Jane Seymour, one of the Queen’s ladies – a holdover from the Lady Anne. Her brothers were courtiers (although Thomas seemed to be more intent on trolling for a rich wife than serving the king).
Princess Barbara was much later than expected, giving her father worries that Hedwig would be like Katherine, believing herself pregnant when no child was within her. But just as Henry was about to send in another midwife and doctors to determine if the Queen was truly with child, Barbara arrived after a short labor on the 20th of September, a joy to her mother and a disappointment to her father; he cancelled the jousts but sent out announcements to other monarchs proudly proclaiming the birth. Henry had been so sure that Hedwig was having a son he’d not really concerned himself with a girl’s name; Barbara was her mother’s name and since he was slightly ashamed of his feelings about having a daughter and not son, he allowed her to name the girl. He actually sat down and calculated the days until he and the Queen could begin working on his son and heir. Her churching would be in the second week of November.
Jane Seymour was having second thoughts about being the King’s mistress. She expressed a worry to him that she had ‘spoiled her chances at a good marriage for no reason other than lust’ – Henry promised her an honorable marriage. But the court continued, albeit in a more subdued manner during the Queen’s absence. After the christening, Lady Catherine Willoughby was betrothed to Viscount Beauchamp of Hache – Edward Seymour; his bruited marriage to Anne Stanhope was stopped by the King himself, who had his eye on Anne as a potential mistress (it was rumored she reminded him of Anne Boleyn). Instead, Henry elevated Seymour as a precondition for the marriage (and, it was believed, to reassure Seymour’s sister of the King’s persistent interest in her).
The King confided to Brandon that it was harder than he expected to find a husband for Mistress Seymour; she was known to be Henry’s current favorite, and the men weren’t sure if Henry was testing, tempting, teasing or actually looking for a husband for her. Brandon promised his friend and King that he’d ensure that the court knew the King was actively looking for a suitable husband.
Queen Hedwig’s return to court was celebrated with a banquet. James Butler, Earl of Ossory (and by rights, Earl of Ormond – a title given to Anne Boleyn’s father), sent his younger brother Richard to court in his stead, the Earl being ill and unable to return to court in England. Richard was better looking, more charming, very popular with the ladies of the court and struck just the right note with the King and Queen. Two weeks after the Queen’s return to public life, the marriage of Catherine Willoughby to Edward Seymour was feted by the court. The Duke of Suffolk missed the wedding, having gone home to meet his new daughter Lucrezia, born the week before.
Christmas at court this year was much more joyous than the last one. The King was wed (and with a new princess), and his heiress presumptive had given the country a boy. The honors granted over the holiday season included a title for Prince John, Henry’s grandson by Princess Mary, Duchess of Beja. He became the Duke of Clarence at the behest of the Queen, who felt a distinction must be made for the first son of a legitimate child as opposed to the gifts of land to Henry FitzRoy, Duke of Richmond and Somerset. Property for the new Duke was also given, although the symbolism of the title was clear: Tudors reigned and any other contenders for the throne should beware. That the year ended with the death of Sir William de la Pole in the Tower from a long illness (when none had been reported until his death) underlined the King’s determination that Plantagenet claims be dismissed. Henry also offered a bounty for the remaining de la Pole brother, Richard, who remained on the continent, entertained and employed by the French.
The Duke of Suffolk was back at court, with the news that Eleanora was expected to deliver his child in late November or early December. The Earl of Wiltshire was also back at court, looking for a suitable husband for his remaining daughter Mary and to discuss the lack of an heir with his son – an Earldom was no good without an heir to continue it, he reminded George.
August brought the confinement of the Queen. The babe was due towards the end of the month and all ceremony was observed as she began the ritual withdrawal to await the birth. The King spent his time hunting and enjoying the favors of Jane Seymour, one of the Queen’s ladies – a holdover from the Lady Anne. Her brothers were courtiers (although Thomas seemed to be more intent on trolling for a rich wife than serving the king).
Princess Barbara was much later than expected, giving her father worries that Hedwig would be like Katherine, believing herself pregnant when no child was within her. But just as Henry was about to send in another midwife and doctors to determine if the Queen was truly with child, Barbara arrived after a short labor on the 20th of September, a joy to her mother and a disappointment to her father; he cancelled the jousts but sent out announcements to other monarchs proudly proclaiming the birth. Henry had been so sure that Hedwig was having a son he’d not really concerned himself with a girl’s name; Barbara was her mother’s name and since he was slightly ashamed of his feelings about having a daughter and not son, he allowed her to name the girl. He actually sat down and calculated the days until he and the Queen could begin working on his son and heir. Her churching would be in the second week of November.
Jane Seymour was having second thoughts about being the King’s mistress. She expressed a worry to him that she had ‘spoiled her chances at a good marriage for no reason other than lust’ – Henry promised her an honorable marriage. But the court continued, albeit in a more subdued manner during the Queen’s absence. After the christening, Lady Catherine Willoughby was betrothed to Viscount Beauchamp of Hache – Edward Seymour; his bruited marriage to Anne Stanhope was stopped by the King himself, who had his eye on Anne as a potential mistress (it was rumored she reminded him of Anne Boleyn). Instead, Henry elevated Seymour as a precondition for the marriage (and, it was believed, to reassure Seymour’s sister of the King’s persistent interest in her).
The King confided to Brandon that it was harder than he expected to find a husband for Mistress Seymour; she was known to be Henry’s current favorite, and the men weren’t sure if Henry was testing, tempting, teasing or actually looking for a husband for her. Brandon promised his friend and King that he’d ensure that the court knew the King was actively looking for a suitable husband.
Queen Hedwig’s return to court was celebrated with a banquet. James Butler, Earl of Ossory (and by rights, Earl of Ormond – a title given to Anne Boleyn’s father), sent his younger brother Richard to court in his stead, the Earl being ill and unable to return to court in England. Richard was better looking, more charming, very popular with the ladies of the court and struck just the right note with the King and Queen. Two weeks after the Queen’s return to public life, the marriage of Catherine Willoughby to Edward Seymour was feted by the court. The Duke of Suffolk missed the wedding, having gone home to meet his new daughter Lucrezia, born the week before.
Christmas at court this year was much more joyous than the last one. The King was wed (and with a new princess), and his heiress presumptive had given the country a boy. The honors granted over the holiday season included a title for Prince John, Henry’s grandson by Princess Mary, Duchess of Beja. He became the Duke of Clarence at the behest of the Queen, who felt a distinction must be made for the first son of a legitimate child as opposed to the gifts of land to Henry FitzRoy, Duke of Richmond and Somerset. Property for the new Duke was also given, although the symbolism of the title was clear: Tudors reigned and any other contenders for the throne should beware. That the year ended with the death of Sir William de la Pole in the Tower from a long illness (when none had been reported until his death) underlined the King’s determination that Plantagenet claims be dismissed. Henry also offered a bounty for the remaining de la Pole brother, Richard, who remained on the continent, entertained and employed by the French.