WI: a diferent Pedro II of Brazil

Well, for those who don't know, Dom Pedro II had no affection for the monarchy, he declared several times that republicanism was the best form of government, and that he had just not declared a republic and abdicated Why he didn't see Brazil ready for the republic (and seeing how the first republic was, he was right) He even wrote in his diary "I would abdicate like my father if I didn't still think I was capable of working for the natural evolution of the republic" He also didn't like being emperor, And he said that if he weren't emperor, he would want to be a teacher, At the end of the empire he abandoned the imperial robes, It is not surprising that he did not react to the military coup that ended the empire.

The idea is that Pedro II, instead of being an Enlightenment man, was a conservative more or less like his uncle Miguel, My opinion is that the empire would have continued into the 21st century With a strong emperor, Sorry to my Brazilian monarchist friends, mainly liberals, but Dom Pedro II is the main culprit for the fall of the empire, He himself self-sabotaged, his republican ideals, detachment from the monarchy, the religious issue (He took sides with the Freemasons and Arrest the bishop dom vital , something that even the Freemason Duque de Caxias disapproved in addition to his daughter Isabel, There is also the issue of the freedom of the church within the empire, with the empire being highly draconian with Catholic orders With many orders having to sell convents to support themselves , all of this leading to the terrible state of the lower Brazilian clergy and leading to Parts of the clergy support the coup against the monarchy, Due to constant attacks by the monarchy on the church), The end of his reign, constantly traveling outside Brazil, abandoning the imperial robes (Something symbolically bad) And etc.

Gilberto Freyre (Sociologist and anthropologist) about him " Dom Pedro II was the first to disdain the crown; and to present himself in a frock coat and black top hat in the eyes of his people, who were eager for a government that was not only paternal but also majestic. And at the head of the Brazilian monarchy, a Manueline church calling for solemn masses rather than moralistic sermons, he gives us this melancholy idea: that of a Protestant pastor officiating in a Catholic cathedral. He doesn't actually officiate: the liturgy seems contemptible to him. He just sermonizes, moralizes, preaches - all mediocrely.

In the midst of the books, Pedro II had lost sight of Brazil: a Brazil that wanted him not in a top hat but in a crown; and martial, paternal, liturgical, in reliefs of action. A Brazil that wanted him more to see him with a sceptre, reigning and on horseback, like a real Saint George, than to listen to the speeches and phrases of a moral censor, a mediocre Marcus Aurelius, a third-rate literary man."

With a different Dom Pedro II, how do you think Brazil would change?
 
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Depends on his specific reactions to specific events. Argentina might expand beyond its borders to take over Uruguay, Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catalina, Parana, Paraguay, and maybe other areas. Maybe Brazil unites the continent in his lifetime. Or it could succumb to civil war and divide into half a dozen or more states based in Sao Paolo, Rio de Janiero, Recife, Salvador, Natal, and Manaus. Either way the history of South America goes rather differently than OTL.
 
Thing what really killed Pedro's faith to survival of Brazilian monarchy was deaths of his sons. Let them survive to adulthood so him has more faith on that. And probably he was too reformist and liberal for Brazil so change that too.
 
I agree with @Lalli that you'd need Pedro to have a surviving son for the Brazilian monarchy to survive. His daughter was never a popular choice for heir, and combined with his pessimism on the whole institution it's easy to see how he was disposed without barely a fight. With a son, he might abdicate as soon as the son's married with children and spend the rest of his life pursuing his academic interests, knowing he's secured the succession for at least another generation.
 
I agree with @Lalli that you'd need Pedro to have a surviving son for the Brazilian monarchy to survive. His daughter was never a popular choice for heir, and combined with his pessimism on the whole institution it's easy to see how he was disposed without barely a fight. With a son, he might abdicate as soon as the son's married with children and spend the rest of his life pursuing his academic interests, knowing he's secured the succession for at least another generation.
Exactly. SO having both his sons survives would be Best. Have any idea For potential brides?
 
Exactly. SO having both his sons survives would be Best. Have any idea For potential brides?
Maria II of Portugal had two daughters born in the 1840s, which makes them roughly the same age as Pedro's son Afonso. Assuming the bad blood between the two Braganza branches isn't as heated by the 1860s they might be acceptable for a future Queen of Brazil.

If not that, possibly one of the daughters of Victor Emmanuel II or an archduchess from one of the innumerable Habsburg cadet branches.
 
Maria II of Portugal had two daughters born in the 1840s, which makes them roughly the same age as Pedro's son Afonso. Assuming the bad blood between the two Braganza branches isn't as heated by the 1860s they might be acceptable for a future Queen of Brazil.

If not that, possibly one of the daughters of Victor Emmanuel II or an archduchess from one of the innumerable Habsburg cadet branches.
Good condidates. And Butter off without portugal
 
In the book saga "Tempo e o Vento" by Brazilian Erico Verissimo, some characters have a discussion about the situation in the Brazilian empire.
All the characters praise Don Pedro but complain that he looks more like a traveling salesman than an Emperor.
 
Thing what really killed Pedro's faith to survival of Brazilian monarchy was deaths of his sons. Let them survive to adulthood so him has more faith on that. And probably he was too reformist and liberal for Brazil so change that too.
I don't think reformist was the problem, but he was very liberal, he read a lot of French literature at the time (he even said "My heart is Brazilian, but my head is French"), He really liked Victor Hugo , This didn't please some people very much either, he spent too much time studying and reading books instead of reigning as a monarch.

"It is fair to wish that Dom Pedro II had been a monarch, if not with a busier life, less morally and philosophically concerned; less bookish; less of a grandson of Marcus Aurelius; less of a Voltairian; less of a friend and admirer of Victor Hugo; less interested in pretending that he ruled a free people, according to the epigram attributed to Ferreira Viana; less sensitive to European liberal and literary opinion about him; and more attentive to Brazilian realities; more in tune with its social and political moment; more up to date with the life of a people of masters, adherents and slaves; more dismissive of European opinion on the conditions of a young, unequal Brazil, still in the first typographic trials of its formation; more martial; more emperor to Brazilian eyes than to the ears of Gladstone and Victor Hugo. More liturgical; more sensitive to the Army, which wanted him to be martial, not to promote wars but to ensure peace; more the grandson of Dona Carlota Joaquina; more the nephew of Dom Miguel; more the reader of Gama e Castro."
 
His daughter was never a popular choice for heir
The Isabel issue, again shows his lack of interest in the monarchy, especially in his last years, The great prejudice against Isabel came from two sides, those linked to Freemasonry/Republicans And anti clericals who saw her as too Catholic (in addition to being devout, Confirmed by her habit of cleaning the churches she attended also sided with dom vital/curch in the conflict Freemasonry x church, Many feared the Vatican's influence on her), And the nationalists (de meia tigela) Who were afraid that the count d'eu became the true monarch during the Isabel period , Pedro could have tried to get around this, passing the succession directly to his grandson and with Isabel being just the regent Removing the possibility of Count d'eu being emperor (appeasing the nationalists) and with Isabel having only a temporary period taking over the reins during the regency (appeasing the Freemasons and anti-clericals), But he didn't even try that, And knowing about the resistance against his daughter, instead of guaranteeing her succession (He was already halfway there because the Navy supported And will support him, he just needed to deal with the army ), he spent more time traveling outside Brazil and reading books than worrying about the future of the monarchy.
 
I wouldnt call him the main culprit due to all the traumatic shit that happened to him which was out of his control and led to the guy becoming that apathetic to his role

That said I agree with everything else in your analysis, and I think its good too that you specified a conservative on the mold of Miguel and not just a brazilian conservative... since those were very much the slavery supporters

I think you might also enjoy this timeline, even if it was cut short due to the author being banned, it follow these ideas to a tee

 
Maria II of Portugal had two daughters born in the 1840s, which makes them roughly the same age as Pedro's son Afonso. Assuming the bad blood between the two Braganza branches isn't as heated by the 1860s they might be acceptable for a future Queen of Brazil.
this pairing - while sounding "agreeable"- is in violation of the Brasilian constitution or some law ...ICR exactly, but ISTR it being mentioned before as "impossible" at worst, and "extraordinarily unlikely" at best. Especially since there's likely to be opposition from it on both sides of the Atlantic as well as the fact that Portugal is in a nosedive it's struggling to pull out of.

edro could have tried to get around this, passing the succession directly to his grandson and with Isabel being just the regent Removing the possibility of Count d'eu being emperor (appeasing the nationalists) and with Isabel having only a temporary period taking over the reins during the regency (appeasing the Freemasons and anti-clericals), But he didn't even try that,
Mostly because Pedro's "preferred" grandson to succeed him was Leopoldina's eldest, not Isabel's. And given Leopoldina's son's...mental troubles OTL, that may not have been such a bright idea
 
A different Pedro II could certainly strengthen the Monarchy, but I caution against making him too conservative. Liberal sentiment in Brazil isn't going to be trammeled easily. A Miguel conservative absolutist probably does more harm than good.

Pedro II did a good job for decades at moderating politics, and this is what kept Brazil intact. He may have done better, but he could have done far, far, worse. Years on the job, age, and female heirs sapped his will to rule.

What matters more than conservative/liberal is an Emperor who is actively looking to strengthen/maintain the Crown.
 
Another factor in PII psyche is his tumultuous childhood. Abandoned by his father. No family in Brazil. Forced into an active governing role barely a teenager. Then stuck in a loveless marriage. The guy's entire life was spent in service of a duty he increasingly felt alienated from.

The same Pedro II might have more zeal for the crown if Pedro I hadn't screwed up his rule so badly, and had stuck around for another decade or two.
 
The same Pedro II might have more zeal for the crown if Pedro I hadn't screwed up his rule so badly, and had stuck around for another decade or two.
What about these events as a POD:
  1. Maria II of Portugal is born a son (João, perhaps?), and Miguel is born as Maria instead
  2. Pedro II of Brasil is born as OTL
  3. Once João and Pedro II are teens, Pedro I splits the inheritance: João becomes Prince of Portugal and Pedro II is heir of Brasil from the get go
IDK if this would be enough to avoid the clusterfuck of OTL, but I HAD to speak out as a Brazilian

Tagging @Aluma and @Taunay for some more input.
 
What about these events as a POD:
  1. Maria II of Portugal is born a son (João, perhaps?), and Miguel is born as Maria instead
  2. Pedro II of Brasil is born as OTL
  3. Once João and Pedro II are teens, Pedro I splits the inheritance: João becomes Prince of Portugal and Pedro II is heir of Brasil from the get go
IDK if this would be enough to avoid the clusterfuck of OTL, but I HAD to speak out as a Brazilian

Tagging @Aluma and @Taunay for some more input.
I agree with these PODs.
But I have something to add, if you want a Pedro II that's different from OTL, you also need to change who tutors him ITTL.
IOTL his first tutor was the Patriarch of Brazilian Independence José Bonifácio de Andrada, who held quite liberal views that may have influenced Pedro II (despite the fact that he didn't tutor Pedro for so long as he was removed from this position by the Regency). Following that Manuel Inácio de Andrade was chosen as Pedro II's tutor, which very deeply influenced the future Emperor's views on democracy and his own role as Emperor. Inácio was a moderate and Bonifácio a liberal.
If you want a conservative Pedro II, the obvious choice is to have him be tutored by conservatives only. Bernardo Pereira de Vasconcelos, one of the leading conservative thinkers of the period, seems like a great choice.
Also if you want to make Pedro II less depressive in general, avoiding the death of his older sister Princess Paula guarantees that he won't be as lonely as he was in his childhood IOTL, which would greatly impact how he perceives himself and his country.
 
I agree with these PODs.
But I have something to add, if you want a Pedro II that's different from OTL, you also need to change who tutors him ITTL.
IOTL his first tutor was the Patriarch of Brazilian Independence José Bonifácio de Andrada, who held quite liberal views that may have influenced Pedro II (despite the fact that he didn't tutor Pedro for so long as he was removed from this position by the Regency). Following that Manuel Inácio de Andrade was chosen as Pedro II's tutor, which very deeply influenced the future Emperor's views on democracy and his own role as Emperor. Inácio was a moderate and Bonifácio a liberal.
If you want a conservative Pedro II, the obvious choice is to have him be tutored by conservatives only. Bernardo Pereira de Vasconcelos, one of the leading conservative thinkers of the period, seems like a great choice.
Also if you want to make Pedro II less depressive in general, avoiding the death of his older sister Princess Paula guarantees that he won't be as lonely as he was in his childhood IOTL, which would greatly impact how he perceives himself and his country.
Great stuff.

Damm, now I want to write this "different Pedro II" TL.
 
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