I should state that I am aware that Mary was declared illegitimate because her parent’s marriage had been annulled, but why was that the case? As an example, Eleanor of Aquitaine’s first marriage with King Louis was annulled, but the daughters from that union were still considered legitimate because the marriage was done in good faith. Couldn’t the same argument have been made for Katherine and Henry’s marriage? If it was to secure the legitimacy of Henry and Anne’s kids, wouldn’t Mary have already been behind any male children born anyway? I guess it could be that there was a chance of a succession crisis if people wanted to rally around Mary since there was the whole debate around Henry’s second marriage being valid, but he did put her back in the line of succession later on, so it couldn’t have been that much of a problem. I don’t know, does this have an obvious answer I’m not seeing?
Why was Queen Mary I declared illegitimate?
- Thread starter Irrisa
- Start date
Mary wouldn't necessarily be behind any of Anne's children since of course it could be argued that Anne was not legitimately queen anyway...
Perhaps Henry genuinely believed she hadn't come to his bed a virgin and thus he had been misled and so the marriage hadn't been done in good faith?
politics,
the Spanish throne wanted to keep Catherine's marriage intact. leaving her daughters as legitimate had the potential to allow House Trastámara enough wiggle room to successfully attack Henry's marriage to Anne.
the Spanish throne wanted to keep Catherine's marriage intact. leaving her daughters as legitimate had the potential to allow House Trastámara enough wiggle room to successfully attack Henry's marriage to Anne.
Actually, that is something else I’m curious about. Since Katherine did insist that she and Arthur didn’t consummate their marriage, did the fact that she lost mean that people back then decided she was lying about that?
I mean It would probably depend on if you had actually thought she had lost. If you didn't and you were a Catholic you probably didn't but if you were part of the Kings Party then you probably took it as proof and moved on with your life
Whether she truly lost or was just forced to quit was another question that could be debated about...
Actually I tend to think Katherine WAS a virgin when she married Henry...if she had been truly considered Arthur's widow/"spoiled goods" then surely she would receive a widow's jointure which she didn't...and if Henry had suspected anything about her virginity then he would have said so BEFORE he tried to divorce her...he could not provide any evidence she had consummated her relationship with Arthur for example the stained bed sheets...also Henry didn't contradict her statement that she was virgin for entire 7 years of great matter. Yes Arthur made the joke about being in Spain but it could be to hide such bedroom deficiencies which would not be surprising as Ludlow was FREEZING cold and Arthur had not been too well after the huge exhausting wedding anyway...and Katherine's duenna had been ordered to keep the royal couple from "overindulging in bed" since that was what had killed her brother and there were no witnesses to claim that she HAD consummated this marriage...hm... (Plus Henry's point for annulment was total rubbish since the dispensation from pope had worked whether or not her marriage with Arthur was consummated in the first place)
It was politics. If Mary was legitimate, that would put her ahead of any daughters of Anne Boleyn and Henry. Also, with an annulment, it means that the marriage itself was valid. ( Too much canon law to go into detail.) And Henry’s point was that supposedly he was never validly married to Catherine.
But what does it matter if she's ahead of Anne's daughters? Henry thought Anne would give birth to SONS meaning it wouldn't matter what order Mary was in.
True, but I suspect he was hedging his bets. Plus, from what I have read, Anne Boleyn was a vindictive bitch, going out of her way to humiliate both Catherine and Mary. So, being declared illegimate..
Usually, but not always, in the case of an annulment (where both parties were judged to have married in good faith with knowledge of any impediment) children born during the marriage are judged to be legitimate as was the case in Eleanor of Aquitaine's annulment.
However, Henry VIII's annulment was not granted by the Catholic church but was ruled on in England - Anne and Henry were already married and she was pregnant (with the future Elizabeth I)
Mary's illegitimacy was formally confirmed in the First Succession Act by which time Anne had produced her daughter who was now declared heir ahead of the illegitimate Mary - a stopgap in Henry's mind until Anne produced the son he expected.
Declaring Mary illegitimate had several sound reasons - she had powerful and influential supporters, she had refused to accept her father's will in terms of ending his marriage to her mother or acknowledge Anne as Queen, as she was nearing adulthood she was a potential rival to any children of Henry and Anne etc especially in the event of the King's early death.
It was also sending a message that the King genuinely believed his marriage to Catherine had been invalid to the extent he was willing to declare their only child illegitimate.
However, Henry VIII's annulment was not granted by the Catholic church but was ruled on in England - Anne and Henry were already married and she was pregnant (with the future Elizabeth I)
Mary's illegitimacy was formally confirmed in the First Succession Act by which time Anne had produced her daughter who was now declared heir ahead of the illegitimate Mary - a stopgap in Henry's mind until Anne produced the son he expected.
Declaring Mary illegitimate had several sound reasons - she had powerful and influential supporters, she had refused to accept her father's will in terms of ending his marriage to her mother or acknowledge Anne as Queen, as she was nearing adulthood she was a potential rival to any children of Henry and Anne etc especially in the event of the King's early death.
It was also sending a message that the King genuinely believed his marriage to Catherine had been invalid to the extent he was willing to declare their only child illegitimate.
In Catholic canon law, one of the two parents being in "good faith" is enough.
Even assuming Katherine lied, Henry believing her should be enough to make Mary legitimate. But, of course, Henry broke up with the Catholic Church and simply did what he wanted.
Except since Anne and Henry were married WHILE he was married to Katherine...that would make Katherine and Mary RIGHT when they refuse to acknowledge Anne as queen. Also, declaring Mary illegitimate is pointless move. If Henry has son with Anne, he will be ahead of his sister anyway.
Yeah a lot of answers to these sort of Questions go "Their was a perfectly serviceable reason in Catholic Law but since Henry thought the Pope was gay he decided he didn't care"
I mean from his perspective he divorced her(She didn't recognise it but he did do so) so from his point of view at least they wouldn't have been
No, Katherine fought the divorce because Henry said Mary was going to be illegitimate meaning of COURSE Mary fought as hard as she could. She was literally sent off to Wales to rule and it was fine, but suddenly he wants to make her a bastard. No way was she letting that stand. She was granddaughter of Isabella of Castile who ruled in her own right after all