Is anyone else more than a tad depressed by the fact that the US is still working through the last echoes of the Civil War 150-odd years after it ended?
BTW for those who argue that people don't actually like CSA victory threads check out "the Southerners were not fighting to preserve slavery arguments" being made here
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=328329
If you buy the false argument that Southerners were not fighting to preserve slavery then what's not to like about a Confederate victory
Is anyone else more than a tad depressed by the fact that the US is still working through the last echoes of the Civil War 150-odd years after it ended?
Its more accurate to say that the part of the US that lost the Civil War is still working its way though those echoes- and fairly badly in many ways.Is anyone else more than a tad depressed by the fact that the US is still working through the last echoes of the Civil War 150-odd years after it ended?
What people disagree with is the assertion that all individual Southerners were fighting solely to maintain slavery. Which I'd argue is untrue because the majority had to be conscripted to fight at all.
Any way I enjoy Confederate victory timelines for the same reason I enjoy books like 1984, The Circle, or Brave New World. Because dystopias can be interesting. Furthermore, as an American it's fascinating to see how my country could have evolved differently. The Civil War really was a defining moment in America. It created the country we know today. It's entirely possible to like a Confederate victory timeline without liking the Confederacy itself.
Precisely one person in that thread claimed the South wasn't fighting for slavery. Everyone else has agreed that the war was about slavery. What people disagree with is the assertion that all individual Southerners were fighting solely to maintain slavery. Which I'd argue is untrue because the majority had to be conscripted to fight at all.
Any way I enjoy Confederate victory timelines for the same reason I enjoy books like 1984, The Circle, or Brave New World. Because dystopias can be interesting. Furthermore, as an American it's fascinating to see how my country could have evolved differently. The Civil War really was a defining moment in America. It created the country we know today. It's entirely possible to like a Confederate victory timeline without liking the Confederacy itself.[1]
1] Problem: If you do an ATL about 1984, with the rulers of Oceania as the "Good Guys", nobody will accuse you of being Pro-Big Brother.
To be fair, that's largely because 1984 is a mere theoretical construct, while the ACW is an historical event about which people are understandably very passionate.
Personally, I know some CSA Victory threads are written by folks who wish the Confederates had won. That's inevitable.
Deciding that everyone who writes such a thread can only be a racist neo-Confederate, however, is going too far.[1]
Personally I like the CSA being victorious or at least independent after the ASW because the slaver scum didn't get punished enough in the war itself and Reconstruction and if they're just beaten by the Yanks they won't get slaughtered properly *AHEM* it gives the timeline writer a horrible dictatorship to smack around not that there's any lack of those in OTL and most ATLs.
Please refrain from revenge fantasies.
I don't think the CSA was properly brought low after the war either- especially the CSA leadership. To use a term that was popular in Dixie-they remained uppity . But what are the alternates to what you say really ?Personally I like the CSA being victorious or at least independent after the ASW because the slaver scum didn't get punished enough in the war itself and Reconstruction and if they're just beaten by the Yanks they won't get slaughtered properly *AHEM* it gives the timeline writer a horrible dictatorship to smack around not that there's any lack of those in OTL and most ATLs.
I don't know that I've ever seen a lot of Confederacy dystopias. Oddly, to me it seems the most likely outcome.
I don't know that I've ever seen a lot of Confederacy dystopias. Oddly, to me it seems the most likely outcome.
I don't know around here-the most famous is Harry Turtledoves Southern Victory series ie a Confederate Hitler with a Confederate Holocaust against blacksI don't know that I've ever seen a lot of Confederacy dystopias.
A society whose founding principal was -overtly-white supremacy. What could go wrong with thatOddly, to me it seems the most likely outcome.
Here are some. All of them are mine but that made it easy for me to look up. I knew ALL my CSA wins wind up as dystopias.
CSA: The Aftermath
CSA Economically dominated by USA
Reunification War
Victorious CSA in Turmoil
President Nathen Bedford Forrest
Balkinized South
Interesting how much opposition you get.
As for dystopias, I've always seen Turtledove's series as a confederate wank. Sure they eventually go all holocaust and lose their great war. But up to that time, they're spectacularly victorious in two wars, barely lose a third, manage to become an industrial and political 'great power' etc.