Who to fight - Royal Netherlands Navy in 1914

[Deleted member 2186]

Who to fight - Royal Netherlands Navy in 1914

So if the Netherlands ever went to war in 1914 either against the British/Japanese ore Germans, then this would be the fleet the Royal Netherlands Navy would be able to field in battle.

Thus is the question, which side would the Netherlands be able to face, the Royal Navy, the Imperial Japanese Navy ore the Imperial German Navy.

Coastal defense ship

Koningin Regentes-class coastal defense ship

The Koningin Regentes-class are 96.622 metres long, have a beam of 15.189 metres, a draught of 5.817 metres and had a displacement of 5,002 ton. The ships are equipped with 2 shaft reciprocating engines, which were rated at 6,500 ihp (4,800 kW) and produced a top speed of 16.5 knots (30.6 km/h).

The ships have belt armour of 6 in (15 cm), 10 in (25 cm) barbette armour and 10 in (25 cm) turret armour.

The main armament of the ships are two 9.4 in (24 cm) single turret guns. Secondary armament included four single 15 cm (5.9 in) guns and eight 7.5 cm (3.0 in) single guns.

HNLMS Koningin Regentes
HNLMS De Ruyter
HNLMS Hertog Hendrik

Marten Harpertszoon Tromp-class coastal defence ship

The ship is 100.78 metres long, had a beam of 15.19 metres, a draught of 5.69 metres and had a displacement of 5,210 ton. The ship is equipped with 2 shaft reciprocating engines, which were rated at 6,400 ihp (4,800 kW) and produced a top speed of 16.5 knots (30.6 km/h).

The ship has a belt armour of 6 in (15 cm), 8 in (20 cm) barbette armour and turret armour.

The main armament of the ships were two 9.4 in (24 cm) single turret guns. Secondary armament included four single 15 cm (5.9 in) guns and eight 7.5 cm (3.0 in) single guns

HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp

Jacob van Heemskerck-class coastal defence ship

The ship is 98 metres long, has a beam of 15.19 metres, a draught of 5.69 metres and had a displacement of 4,920 ton. The ship is equipped with 2 shaft reciprocating engines, which were rated at 6,400 ihp (4,800 kW) and produced a top speed of 16.5 knots (30.6 km/h).

The ship had a belt armour of 6 in (15 cm), 8 in (20 cm) barbette armour and turret armour.

Two 9.4 in (24 cm) single turret guns provided the ship's main armament, and these were augmented by six single 15 cm (5.9 in) guns and six 7.5 cm (3.0 in) single guns. The ship had a complement of 340 men.

HNLMS Jacob van Heemskerck

De Zeven Provinciën-class coastal defence ship

The ship is 101.5 metres long, has a beam of 17.1 metres and a draft of 6.15 metres and displaced 6,530 tons. She had a crew of 448 and was able to reach 16 knots.

Two 283 mm, four 150 mm, ten 75 mm, four 37 mm guns, in addition to a 75 mm mortar provided the ship's main armament.

HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën

Protected cruisers

The first three ships of the class (Holland,Zeeland and Friesland) are 93.3 metres long while the last three (Gelderland, NoordBrabant en Utrecht) are 94.7 metres long, a beam of 14.8 metres, a draught of 5.41 metres (nd had a displacement of 3,900 tons.

The ships are equipped with two shaft reciprocating engines, which were rated at 10,000 ihp (7,500 kW) and produced a top speed of 20 knots (37 km/h). The ships had 5-centimetre (2.0 in) deck armour.

The main armament of the ships were two 5.9 in (15 cm) single guns. Secondary armament included six single 4.7 in (12 cm) guns and four 3 in (7.6 cm) single guns.

HNLMS Holland
HNLMS Zeeland
HNLMS Friesland
HNLMS Gelderland
HNLMS Noordbrabant
HNLMS Utrecht

Destroyer

Wolf-class destroyer

The ships displaced 510 t (502 long tons) and measured 70.4 in overall length, a 6.6 m breadth, with a 2 m draught.

They are powered by four Yarrow boilers installed that produced 8,500 hp (6,300 kW). They had two Krupp-Germania steam turbines that drove two shafts.

The ships are armed with four 75 mm (3 in)/52 caliber guns, four 7.92 mm (0.31 in)/80 caliber machine guns, and two 450 mm (18 in) torpedo tubes.

HNLMS Wolf
HNLMS Fret
HNLMS Bulhond
HNLMS Jakhals
HNLMS Hermelijn
HNLMS Lynx
HNLMS Vos
HNLMS Panter

Minelayers

Hydra-class minelayer

HNLMS Hydra
HNLMS Medusa

Gunboat

Brinio-class gunboat

HNLMS Friso
HNLMS Gruno
HNLMS Brinio

Torpedo boat

G1 Johan Van Brakel-class torpedo boats

HNLMS G1 Johan Van Brakel
HNLMS G2 Jan Danielzoon van der Rijn
HNLMS G3 Meijndert Jentjes
HNLMS G4 Willem Willemsze

K-class torpedo boat

HNLMS Michiel Gardeyn
HNLMS Christiaan Cornelis
HNLMS Willem Warmont

Draak-class torpedo boat

HNLMS Draak
HNLMS Krokodil
HNLMS Zeeslang

Ophir 1st-class torpedo boat

HNLMS Ophir
HNLMS Pangrango
HNLMS Rindjani
HNLMS Smeroe
HNLMS Tangka
HNLMS Wajang

Hydra 1st-class torpedo boats

HNLMS Hydra
HNLMS Scylla
HNLMS Minotaurus
HNLMS Python
HNLMS Sphinx

Submarines

O 1-class submarine

HNLMS O-1

K I-class submarine

HNLMS K I

O 2-class submarine

HNLMS O-2
HNLMS O-3
HNLMS O-4
HNLMS O-5

 

[Deleted member 2186]

Sorry wrong board, can @CalBear ore any mod please move this thread to After-1900, thanks.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Well, with this OOB they aren't achieving anythiing against the Royal Navy or the Japanese. In any fight against them, even a second rate force from either nation would destroy this - for example if the Japanese sent the Tsukubas, the old battleships and armoured cruisers, the Hizen maybe, it will outgun this force, even if the entirety of this force is in the East Indies. The Royal Navy basically only need to send the Second Fleet, or if war has broken out the Channel Fleet

The main use of this force as a cohesive force, might just be against whatever force the Germans can put together in the Far East. I guess it would be an interesting battle to have Graf Von Spee's force plus some destroyers or gunboats face this entire force in a head-to-head

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[Deleted member 94680]

There’s a reason the Netherlands stayed neutral in 1914.

 

[Deleted member 2186]

There’s a reason the Netherlands stayed neutral in 1914.

But the question is, could this Royal Navy operating out of the Netherlands East Indies beat the Imperial Japanese Navy, even if it gets help from the German East Asian Squadron.

 

[Dorknought]

But the question is, could this Royal Navy operating out of the Netherlands East Indies beat the Imperial Japanese Navy, even if it gets help from the German East Asian Squadron.

No. The German Squadron fled Tsingtao in 1914 because of the IJN. The Dutch themselves recognised that their naval forces were inadequate which is why they were poised to order 5 of these from German yards to be ready in 1917.

The Dutch siding with the Germans in 1914 would make the blockade bite harder and earlier.

 

[steamboy]

But the question is, could this Royal Navy operating out of the Netherlands East Indies beat the Imperial Japanese Navy, even if it gets help from the German East Asian Squadron.

Not in any way, shape or form. The IJN was a powerful force even before the commissioning of the Ise and Fuso classes, they had the Satsumas and several large powerful semi-dreadnoughts, and at the outbreak of WW1, two Kongo class battlecruisers. These ships are comically outgunned by any ship and the only way they could do something is if the other side decided to be very sporting and send equally undergunned and old ships to deal with them.

 

[Deleted member 2186]

No. The German Squadron fled Tsingtao in 1914 because of the IJN. The Dutch themselves recognised that their naval forces were inadequate which is why they were poised to order 5 of these from German yards to be ready in 1917.

The Dutch siding with the Germans in 1914 would make the blockade bite harder and earlier.

Well they will not get any of those, even if they will ally with Germany, the German Imperial Navy will not hand over ships to another country if they can use it themselves.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

But the question is, could this Royal Navy operating out of the Netherlands East Indies beat the Imperial Japanese Navy, even if it gets help from the German East Asian Squadron.

It’s not a “question” though, it’s as close to a fact as possible. There is no chance for the RNLN, East Asia Squadron or no.

 

[Dorknought]

Well they will not get any of those, even if they will ally with Germany, the German Imperial Navy will not hand over ships to another country if they can use it themselves.

A German yard was building a Battleship for Greece and had already sold in service German Destroyers to the Greek and Turkish navies. They had already sold battleships to Turkey and also offered the new Armoured Cruiser Blucher. Lots of evidence that German commercial yards would fulfill these contracts if war doesn’t break out before 1918. The Dutch will have completed the first part of their naval rebuilding plan. A four ship squadron in the East Indies would require a huge chunk of the IJN far from home waters to protect an invasion force.

 

[steamboy]

The IJN would have the advantage of experience, they'd fought a war in 1906 and most of those senior officers and Captains are still around. The IJN was a well trained force and well led. The Dutch navy seems to have little training and no experience in naval warfare since the 1700's.

Also where are these 4 ships going to be based? are there the facilities to crew, service and repair them available? And whilst the Dutch are 'menacing' the Japanese with their 4 warships, the RN will help their allies (read patsies) by attacking the Dutch coast and slaughtering anything that comes out to play.

 

[Deleted member 2186]

The IJN would have the advantage of experience, they'd fought a war in 1906 and most of those senior officers and Captains are still around. The IJN was a well trained force and well led. The Dutch navy seems to have little training and no experience in naval warfare since the 1700's.

True, the Royal Netherlands Navy was mostly used for transporting troops and shore bombardments during the uprisings that happen in the Netherlands East Indies.

Here is a nice YouTube clip of the Royal Netherlands Navy in 1917 OTL.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Join the Entente = Netherlands occupied
Join the Central Powers = DEI occupied

Ideal solution = stay neutral

 

[Deleted member 2186]

Join the Entente = Netherlands occupied
Join the Central Powers = DEI occupied

Ideal solution = stay neutral

True, but i doubt all of the Netherlands would be occupied by the Germans, i see a Free Netherlands being made up of the provinces of Holland, Zeeland running towards Antwerp

 

[Deleted member 94680]

True, but i doubt all of the Netherlands would be occupied by the Germans

How so?

I see a Free Netherlands being made up of the provinces of Holland, Zeeland running towards Antwerp

That is entirely behind the front line of the Western Front OTL. Zealand is pretty accessible from the Sea (the Scheldt is pretty navigable for decent-sized vessels until Cambrai according to wiki) but it’s still ‘behind’ Belgium. Are you suggesting the Dutch can hold off the Germans for the entirety of the War, or that it’d be a beachhead for large Entente landings?

 

[Deleted member 2186]

That is entirely behind the front line of the Western Front OTL. Zealand is pretty accessible from the Sea (the Scheldt is pretty navigable for decent-sized vessels until Cambrai according to wiki) but it’s still ‘behind’ Belgium. Are you suggesting the Dutch can hold off the Germans for the entirety of the War, or that it’d be a beachhead for large Entente landings?

Well of course we might see the British coming to the Netherlands aid, also Belgian forces who fled into the Netherlands after the German invasion might bolster the Netherlands forces, and do not forget the Germans have now gotten a larger front line to man.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Well of course we might see the British coming to the Netherlands aid, also Belgian forces who fled into the Netherlands after the German invasion might bolster the Netherlands forces, and do not forget the Germans have now gotten a larger front line to man.

But if the PoD is 1914, don’t the Germans attack the Netherlands then, before the BEF expands sufficiently to help?

 

[Deleted member 2186]

But if the PoD is 1914, don’t the Germans attack the Netherlands then, before the BEF expands sufficiently to help?

But if they can delay like the Belgians did and flood the Holland Waterline, the Germans might be able to be held at Holland Waterline, long enough for the British to send additional forces to aid the Dutch.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

But if they can delay like the Belgians did and flood the Holland Waterline, the Germans might be able to be held at Holland Waterline, long enough for the British to send additional forces to aid the Dutch.

What additional forces and where aren’t they sent that they were sent OTL?

Sounds like the ATL Dutch are a drain on resources for the OTL Entente.

 

[Deleted member 2186]

What additional forces and where aren’t they sent that they were sent OTL?

Sounds like the ATL Dutch are a drain on resources for the OTL Entente.

And a strain for the Germans who now have a longer front line to man, divisions who could be better used on the French front ore Eastern Front.