Personally, I can't understand why Stalin would turn into a psychotic tyrant in the Land of the Free. You'd think that being raised in a country with far stronger democratic institutions than Russia would have an effect on how young Stalin would grow up. People aren't just born bad. They're at least partially shaped by their upbringing. There's a timeline on the alternate history wiki where Hitler being raised in America leads to him absorbing American values and becoming a good president. I personally think it's a more plausible result than just transplanting Stalinist Russia to the States.
When did Turtledove lose his way?
- Thread starter Sheliak Lawyer
- Start date
Max Sinister
Banned
Maybe it depends on the readers. as soon as you notice his "Hitler's rise transposed to the CSA" shtick and get bored of the repetitions, he's finished to you.
He has done more for the genre than any other author alive, and even at his worst, he is far superior to say, SM Sterling. Love his short fiction, and wish he did more of it.
That sounds great - what's the story called?
That sounds great - what's the story called?
I like his books too,I've bought enough of them hard,soft and kindle over the years and I wish I could write,it just seems that he plugs in a pretty good divergence but then doesn't run with it.
TheHolyInquisition
Banned
For as much as the forum loves to debate turtledove, I haven't seen many alternatives (although I haven't been looking very hard.)
Some really underrated Turtledove is the "Crosstime Traffic" series of alternative history novels for children. Well, young readers. They are totally enjoyable by adults and I think they are his best work.
There is a Crosstime Traffic website, but it doesn't do more than list the books and give you a place to buy them. You are better off with the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosstime_Traffic
He wrote six of these between 2003 and 2008 and I'm not sure why the series was discontinued. The later books are better than the earlier ones. There is enough material here for a couple seasons of a TV series.
I think the deal with Turtledove is that he is prolific and knowledgeable, and sometimes is a good writer. But he badly needs a good editor, and does better work on a small scale. He really would be an idea short story writer.
There is a Crosstime Traffic website, but it doesn't do more than list the books and give you a place to buy them. You are better off with the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosstime_Traffic
He wrote six of these between 2003 and 2008 and I'm not sure why the series was discontinued. The later books are better than the earlier ones. There is enough material here for a couple seasons of a TV series.
I think the deal with Turtledove is that he is prolific and knowledgeable, and sometimes is a good writer. But he badly needs a good editor, and does better work on a small scale. He really would be an idea short story writer.
I should be predisposed to give him kudos since we are simpatico as Jews born in June 1949, however, I have met him a couple of times at readings in Chicago, and didn't find him personally to be very nice. His friend and web site host, Steven Silver, tried to make up for it. That being said, I am in awe of his early work, especially, Guns of the South. As someone who began reading alt-history in high school and having read hundreds of books in this genre (probably more than anyone than perhaps some judges on the Sidewise Award committee ) he stands atop of the mountain. Conroy, is a close second. A newcomer, Boyington (no, not the Black Sheep squadron one) has put out a couple of great reads in his Manifest Destiny series.
Deleted member 2186
The sad thing is Conroy has passed away so Turtledove will still be on top of that mountain for a while.
I agree, The War that Came Early i felt was lacking, with too many infantrymen, i'd rather have a French Tanker or a British general then so many in the mud types. Also if you research such a conflict, on paper it sounds cool, but it would be in reality, an allied curb stomp.
Also now i'm pissed, just ordered the first two Hot War books today
Don't be. The Hot War is pretty good IMO. There's a lot more civilian and non-infantry people too, and there is an actual story (unlike WTCE, which is just Hitler fighting people for 6 books).
- BNC
Danke I was only irked because i'd rather not buy em and then be told "They suck", glad to hear that isn't so. (Maybe i ride too much on Harry sometimes, i want everything he does to kick ass since he is one of my favorite authors)Fort Pillow is one of his better works, a rare historical novel of the battle of the same name, something he sadly hasn't done more of as his style sinks up great with it.
Joe Steele is like Peshawar Lancers, an entertaining story that succeeds fully on its own without being part of a big series.
Deleted member 2186
Is Europe under Communist control and what about the British.
Britain is kind of on her own and there is fear that France and Italy could fall under communist influence
Deleted member 2186
Would think with both countries having large communist movements it would already have happened.
I can't go that far. He probably has done more than any other niche novelist to bring the genre of alternate history to the general public, and his ideas are far more interesting than mainstream authors like Phillip Roth or New Gingrich. However, as a pure, effortless, writer of fiction, he is nowhere as competent as Stirling, Robert Conroy, or several other writers who have explored alternate history, multiverse, or ISOT themes. I read almost everything he writes, however, because I consider Turtledove's basic premises and ideas very original and imaginative. Its his weaknesses as a narrative writer (unnecessary repetition, far too many POV characters, stilted dialogue, and too much awkward parallelism with OTL) that I don't like. His single books tend to be the best and, without a doubt, doubt, I would put "Ruled Britannia" on the highest pedestal. The World War and TL-191 series display his worst traits in abundance, but in both cases they at least offer imaginative and interesting premises.
My guess is that he just got bored with writing the timeline 191 series, and after a while he started to hate it. Just a guess, but I've heard that the same thing happens to many artists.
I've only read Worldwar and even though I desperately wanted to love it, it very quickly turns into what I can only assume was Turtledove indulging in his own personal sexual fantasies. The whole chapters about the Chinese woman having to bang man after man was just monstrously awful