What would Nixon’s second term look like if watergate had never happened and how would he be viewed today?

I’ve always been curious about a world in which watergate never occurred/wasn’t revealed for many decades. About what Nixon would’ve done differently than ford. And what sort of effects he’d have. But also how history would view him given that this was 50 years ago now. In a world where there was no watergate scandal what would history books say about him? What would the forums and sub reddits of this alternate world say of nixon?

Obviously without the scandal of scandals he’s bound to be remembered far far more fondly than iotl. But I guess how much more fondly depends on how his second term goes. I’d like to imagine the universal healthcare bill passes, which would be nice for sure. He’d still have his foreign policies wins he’s known for. Maybe south vietnam wouldn’t fall? But I’m not too sure of that, could south vietnam have been saved by Nixon? What about project independence? How would the economy be differently under him?

I think he’d be viewed as overall good president with some good things happening under him but still have issues like the Vietnam peace negotiations iirc. I guess how good or bad of a president he’s remembered as depends on how his second term goes.

So how do you think his second term would go and how would he be viewed in 2023?
 
South Vietnam holds out. US couldn't win the war in the north but imo holding the south isn't too mcuh of an ask.
US gets national healthcare and unconditional basic income in mid 70s thanks to a combination of Nixonian dealmaking plus the GOP's movement conservatives not being empowered.
Movement conservatives a wing as opposed to 3/4 of the party.
GOP gains a populist wing.
No Reagan because less interest in Backlash politics.
Nuclear power at least 20% of US power generation with renewables a bit boosted due to project independence. Fusion power discovered at least 5 years before 2023 even if like OTL we're nowhere near monetizing it.
Space program merely cut back severely after 1970s instead of borderline dying like in OTL.
Less chaotic 1970s means fewer boomers and thanks to either boomer examples(generation X) or being brought up in it(millenials) are vocally Religious. US doesn't see mass secularization any earleir than OTL, probably but difference is gradual leakage away from religion combined with religious people being less... enthusiastically.
 
There's a few theses you'll get, and they'll reflect different views on America, the narrative of 20th century America and the human condition.

Firstly, I'll mention the Waterloo Thesis: What happens if Napoleon won Waterloo? He loses somewhere else later because the forces were all in play for him to lose. What happens if Nixon avoided Watergate? Another scandal erupts somewhere else anyway. It could be argued the administration was so out of control that it was increasingly inevitable that something would come out, and it just happened to take until/ be Watergate.

The opposite side is Nixon staying in office without scandal. That has the possibility of being better or worse, depending on what he would actually do and how it would be reacted to for that individual. There is a very big thing I want to mention here: it was not worse that America found out Watergate rather than we were ignorant and loving Nixon. That's a thesis born of of greener grass thinking, nihilism, thinking broken systems are the normal state and need to be exploited, and trying to bargain with the difficulties of the past and present. I don't believe that at all.

If he had remained in office, the interesting thing is a muted era of political reform. Watergate shifted things towards a government accountable to the people. That was embodied in Carter. That political wave abated (not for lack of trying, but the powers that be still being how they are and running the reforms). However, Nixon would skip the era of honesty, humility and accountability that spoke out against the Imperial Presidency.
 
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Diplomatic relations established between the US and the PRC to build upon the 1972 Nixon visit instead of waiting till 1979 as in OTL. All things being equal, Agnew resigns as VP, Ford becomes VP. But how would Ford 77 fare?
 

colonel

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Diplomatic relations established between the US and the PRC to build upon the 1972 Nixon visit instead of waiting till 1979 as in OTL. All things being equal, Agnew resigns as VP, Ford becomes VP. But how would Ford 77 fare?
Agree, but Ford if he runs is one of many in the primaries. You’ll have Connelly, Reagan, Howard Baker, Lowell Weiker and others, so a wide spectrum. On the Democratic side you likely get the same competitors less Carter, who if he does run is a cipher. Ted Kennedy still sits it out as Chappaquiddick is too recent.
 
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colonel

Donor
$$$$ and supplies.
Agreed. Congress wouldn’t have passed the War Powers Act, or blocked aid when the North violated the peace accords. We wouldn’t have sent troops back in, but sufficient aid would have flowed to save the South and deter the North.
 
South Vietnam holds out. US couldn't win the war in the north but imo holding the south isn't too much of an ask.

How? Holding the South was very much too much of an ask and by Watergate we'd long since given up the ghost.

Air support and the threat of no-holds-barred bombing of the North. Keep in mind Nixon's reputation was on the line as he'd promised US support if the North invaded which was what they were doing. (Also not they did NOT invade until after Nixon was out of office) The whole point was American airpower intervention with NO restrictions was going to devastate the North and everyone knew it. The main issue for the North was they were aware that while the US would refuse to commit troops they could and would bomb the North till the rubble bounced if Nixon found them breaking the peace treaty. Nixon and Kissinger SPECIFICALLY made that clear and as far as North Vietnam (and China/Russia) knew that was in fact within his power to do. (Questionable but more likely than not, "Imperial Presidency" again)

Peace and withdrawal from Vietnam was one of Nixon's "Big Wins" and he was serious about defending that South if it came to that.

US gets national healthcare and unconditional basic income in mid 70s thanks to a combination of Nixonian dealmaking plus the GOP's movement conservatives not being empowered.

The problem with that is it's not as likely Nixon would spend the political capital to ram it through and it WOULD in fact empower the more conservative and reactionary wing of the GOP boosting people like Reagan. He'd likely suggest it but not go to the wall for it if it was opposed and it would be.

Movement conservatives a wing as opposed to 3/4 of the party.

The conservative/reactionary wing already existed and Nixon was always walking a fine line to keep them in check. He was also perfectly willing to use them and their talking points if it garnered him support he wanted to I'd say he's more likely to allow them to grow as the 70s progress.

GOP gains a populist wing.

Has always had one but it's been dying on the vine for decades at this point. That was the wing that Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford were from really

No Reagan because less interest in Backlash politics.

Reagan was a popular governor of California and had his sights set on higher office, he's going to 'adjust' toward Nixonian politics without Watergate but he's very much a card carrying member of the "Imperial Presidency" group, just like Nixon.

Nuclear power at least 20% of US power generation with renewables a bit boosted due to project independence. Fusion power discovered at least 5 years before 2023 even if like OTL we're nowhere near monetizing it.

More nuclear plants but 'renewables' were not really ready by the 70s and would still need several decades of development. Project Independence was aimed at developing domestic sources of oil and gas and increased use of coal I don't see that changing. Nor do I see a major increase in fusion research funding.

Space program merely cut back severely after 1970s instead of borderline dying like in OTL.

Eh no it's still on track to get drastically cut. Nixon wanted NASA to take it's place among the other agencies and this was something NASA was not prepared to do and in fact wasn't even really knowing "how" given they were built around a the Apollo paradigm. Congress is going to keep cutting funding just like OTL and Nixon is not going to raise a finger to stop it. We're getting the Shuttle and all that followed but we might get Nixon peeved enough he actually appoints a 'bean-counter' type Administrator to rebuild NASA into something that can actually work within the budget they have rather than pining for lost glory.

I'd fully expect Nixon to look to reaching out for other cooperative projects in space with the Soviets.

Less chaotic 1970s means fewer boomers and thanks to either boomer examples(generation X) or being brought up in it(millennials) are vocally Religious. US doesn't see mass secularization any earlier than OTL, probably but difference is gradual leakage away from religion combined with religious people being less... enthusiastically.

The late '70s was a reaction to the late 60s and a build up to the "me-ism" of the 80s I don't see that changing much though we'll be less 'down' in the late 70s without the disappointment of Watergate. (Though as Emperor Norton 1 puts it we probably don't totally avoid scandal and disappointment) Secularization had already been a major movement since the early 60s and there was already a pushback especially among some of the younger generation having become tied up in the youth movement and civil rights and this was only going to get more pronounced as those youth matured up.

Now if the US manages to avoid a "Watergate level" loss of confidence in the government we're less likely to see the malaise and fears of Soviet ("Godless Soviet" no less) dominance in the world that drove the late 70s and early 80s "End Times" and "Satanic Panic" movements to the degree we had them OTL.

Nixon would be remembered as the man who got the US out Vietnam and kept the peace in Asia. He'd have opened up China and worked to keep the USSR in check. It would be an "open secret" that he played dirty with politics but he kept America safe so generally a positive image.

Randy
 
Dumping more money and arms in wouldn't have worked. The only actual way to "win" the war would be to invade the North and risk WW3. Vietnam was a next-to-unwinnable war

Compare how the NVA's 1972 Easter Offensive where Nixon was still President and the US supported the ARVN with airpower and supplies went with their 1975 offensive. Vietnamization was working and if the US had been willing to continue providing air and financial support I think South Vietnam could have held on.
 
and unconditional basic income in mid 70s
In a sense, we got this with the Earned Income Credit, which is mainly for parents, grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, etc, working low- to medium-paid jobs and taking care of a family member age 18 or younger [or older if this family member can be classified as disabled].

I think a bigger deal would be President Nixon showing by word and deed that labor unions are a fact of life and a clear net positive in the overall scheme of things. Specifically, we avoid President Reagan firing the air traffic controllers in 1981, which was taken by corporate executives as open season on unions and they wouldn’t receive much pushback if they decided to wage war.
 
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In a sense, we got this with the Earned Income Credit, which is mainly for parents, grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, etc, working a low- to medium-paid jobs and taking care of a family member age 18 or younger [or older if this family member can be classified as disabled].
An unconditional basic income is very different from the Earned Income Credit
 
I think a bigger deal would be President Nixon showing by word and deed that labor unions are a fact of life and a clear net positive in the overall scheme of things. Specifically, we avoid President Reagan firing the air traffic controllers in 1981, which was taken by corporate executives as open season on unions and they wouldn’t receive much pushback if they decided to wage war.

The issue with that is that Nixon is going to be out of office by 1976 and while you would need to write a whole TL to game out all of the options there is a constant which is PATCO's membership had a vastly inflated sense of irreplaceability and a desire for exceptional and unaffordable working conditions. While the timing may differ and a President Mondale or Carter will have a different approach PATCO are riding for a fall and it will almost certainly involve a failed strike.
 
First of all, if Nixon finishes his term, I feel like there might be a kind of peace deal in Vietnam or at least some recognition of South Vietnam being left alone or having it be quite small compared to the north. Nixon is going to want "Peace with Honor" while also looking to seem like the war was not totally a lost cause, so I'm guessing he'll try to make sure there's some sort of South Vietnamese state, even if its just a smaller area around Saigon. Granted I don't know how the US would get the North Vietnamese to accept this, but I just feel this would be the way for Nixon to do this, and with his success in regards to regularizing relations with China, I could see how he feels he could get the North Vietnamese to work something out.

As for other issues in his term, Nixon would probably still try to fix inflation by having tax cuts, but he'd also still be seen as spending too much by passing things like the Education for All Handicapped Children Act, and many in his own party might argue that this is a state issue and that since the states deal more directly with education, this will be seen as a way for the feds to get more control of education, and many will see Nixon as simply trying to expand government, against many in his party, and as well as conservative Democrats. He'd also probably speak out against Roe Vs. Wade, but not necessarily against abortion, saying again that it’s a state's rights issue. While some pro lifers would not be happy, many conservatives would argue its better than the status quo after Roe, and you'd get many Republicans and even a good number of Democrats at this time to argue that Roe went too far and thus, you see Republicans try to make bills that restrict abortion access and also campaign for the court to take a case to reverse it. Nixon also voices opposition to school bussing, and tries to smooth it over by emphasizing the importance of neighborhood schools and emphasizing that school districts need to focus on better schools for all rather than diverse schools saying that "better education is going to help more than dropping children from all over kingdom come into one classroom hoping things will work out."

In regards to elections in 74, if Nixon is in, I still think that the Democrats still get a lot of seats but not as many as OTL. I'd say that 270 is probably where they land, meaning they do have a big majority in the house. In the Senate the Democrats lose seats and notably regarding OTL, Patrick Leahy is defeated in Vermont, and Richard Lugar becomes Senator in Indiana, though the Democrats still hold 55 seats, putting them in the majority.

In the end, with no Watergate, Nixon is seen as a decently competent President, and is particularly lauded for his visit to China and for brokering peace in Vietnam, even if many in his own party don't see it as much of a victory. He also is lauded for creating things like the EPA, but again many conservatives still feel that his presidency spent too much and in their opinion, kept liberal and moderate republicans on life support.

As such in 1976, the Republican primary to me looks like a less intense version of 1964, with Regan leading the Conservatives, Rockefeller leading the liberals, and Gerald Ford and George HW Bush trying as moderates to keep the party together. However it becomes evident that with such challengers, Reagan wins in a plurality in the early primary states, with Reagan winning Iowa and New Hampshire, and forcing and Rockefeller to drop out. Reagan does lose earlier New England primaries in Massachussetts and Vermont, as well as Illinois, but wins in Florida, comes a close second in Wisconsin and racks up victories in many southern and western states and eventually wins in Ohio. Reagan then wins the nomination and choses Bob Dole of Kansas as his running mate.

As for the Democrats, with no Watergate, the primaries are wide open. Jimmy Carter still runs, along with Mo Udall, George Wallace, and Scoop Jackson. Carter still picks up a victory in Iowa, but few seem concerned. With Carter unable to play the Washington outsider game, and George Wallace also running, Carter still picks up some delegates but in the end, Mo Udall comes out on top and is the nominee, Lloyd Bentsen nominated as Vice President, thus providing a link to the South while still having a more moderate ticket.

In the end, Udall wins a close race, and in particular, closely wins a number of midwestern states, while Reagan sweeps the South and in the west, only loses in Oregon, Washington and New Mexico. While some Republicans argue that this shows that Reagan and the conservative movement are not as palatable to those in middle America, Conservatives see it as a sign that they are winning and Reagan himself says he'd be ready to go again if necessary. In the Senate, a 50/50 tie also occurs, though the Vice President is the tie breaker. Meanwhile in the house the Democrats lose seats but still have 255, keeping their majority.

With Udall in the White House, the main focuses domestically are fixing stagflation, providing healthcare for all, and working for environmental protection. Udall does end up supporting a universal healthcare plan and it does make it through the house in 1977 it is stopped in the Senate as a few conservative Democrats voting against it, though an employer mandate to provide catastrophic insurance does pass. It is with the economy though that Udall struggles. While the economy grows and unemployment shrinks, inflation continues to rise and with the energy crisis of 1979, Udall seems clueless on the economy. However, he does get praise for his environmental record and does get credit among some for promoting green energy at its early stages.

In foreign policy, the big thing is going to be that there will beno Camp David Accords and as a result there might be future troubles between Egypt and Israel, as while Menachim Begin does support leaving the Sinai, many Israelis do not, and thus Egypt and the Arab world continues to not recognize Israel, though Sadat does still try to work on some sort of peace deal, though relations remain tense. There also is the Iran hostage crisis which mostly plays out like in OTL and the Panama Canal Treaty, where Udall makes a deal to let Panama have control by the end of 1999 as in OTL.

By this point, Udall, much like Carter is defeated by Reagan, and in the end things are not too different. Udall, like Carter is seen as a failure, though among liberals he is still more liked than Carter, though he doesn't have the humanitarian record like Carter in OTL. He loses the 1980 election by a larger margin than Carter, though he does get 110 electoral votes, with New York being the largest state he wins along with Minnesota and Wisconsin. As for Carter, he tries to run for senate in Georgia in 1980 but loses, in a year where the Democrats fall to only 33 seats and lose the house.

So basically there are a few differences, but in the end not much. Basically Jimmy Carter is unknown outside of Georgia, Nixon is has a bit of a better reputation, and there might be a bit of delay in peace between Israel and Egpyt. I'm sure it would cause more butterflies but that's just what I see looking at all of this. Maybe a different Democrat running in 84 against Reagan like Gary Hart or even Ted Kennedy, though I don't see the latter if he doesn't get the boost from challenging Carter.
 
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There's a few theses you'll get, and they'll reflect different views on America, the narrative of 20th century America and the human condition.

Firstly, I'll mention out the Waterloo Thesis: What happens if Napoleon won Waterloo? He loses somewhere else later because the forces were all in play for him to lose. What happens if Nixon avoided Watergate? Another scandal erupts somewhere else anyway. It could be argued the administration was so out of control that it was increasingly inevitable that something would come out, and it just happened to take until/ be Watergate.

The opposite side is Nixon staying in office without scandal. That has the possibility of being better or worse, depending on what he would actually do and how it would be reacted to for that individual. There is a very big thing I want to mention here: it was not worse that America found out Watergate rather than we were ignorant and loving Nixon. That's a thesis born of of greener grass thinking, nihilism, thinking broken systems are the normal state and need to be exploited, and trying to bargain with the difficulties of the past and present. I don't believe that at all.

If he had remained in office, the interesting thing is a muted era of political reform. Watergate shifted things towards a government accountable to the people. That was embodied in Carter. That political wave abated (not for lack of trying, but the powers that be still being how they are and running the reforms). However, Nixon would skip the era of honesty, humility and accountability that spoke out against the Imperial Presidency.
Who's to say Nixon survives his second term? The late 70s to early 80s had a lot of nuts running around with guns who wanted to blow away the President.
 
A TL sorta similar to our own but maybe with earlier welfare reform (family assistance plan) and UHC, hopefully single payer since that's likely less overall cost than a patchwork system, especially the OTL Employer Mandate that was in Nixoncare. A Republican President setting up single payer would be hilarious, and American politics with the Healthcare issue "settled" would have a lot of butterflies. Maybe South Vietnam still stands? If he can do both those things that'd be a decent legacy. A democrat will probably win in 76 and lose reelection since that's the cursed term and all, probably to Reagan. I do wonder if Reagan is the nominee in 76 if he can win the primary again in 80, however. If he were the nominee both times, he might be able to run an effective "Told you so, America" campaign. Although I heard Nixon wanted John Connally to run.
 
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The issue with that is that Nixon is going to be out of office by 1976 and while you would need to write a whole TL to game out all of the options there is a constant which is PATCO's membership had a vastly inflated sense of irreplaceability and a desire for exceptional and unaffordable working conditions. While the timing may differ and a President Mondale or Carter will have a different approach PATCO are riding for a fall and it will almost certainly involve a failed strike.
In a re-roll of the dice, maybe the air traffic controllers can believe the polls. Or, maybe re-commission a brand spanking new poll and hopefully gradually come to the conclusion, Gee, we’re just not that popular.

Plus, you avoid the sense of betrayal with Reagan first receiving the endorsement of PATCO during his 1980 campaign and then firing them [which would also be there if a Democrat fired them]
 
First of all, if Nixon finishes his term, I feel like there might be a kind of peace deal in Vietnam or at least some recognition of South Vietnam being left alone or having it be quite small compared to the north. Nixon is going to want "Peace with Honor" while also looking to seem like the war was not totally a lost cause, so I'm guessing he'll try to make sure there's some sort of South Vietnamese state, even if its just a smaller area around Saigon. Granted I don't know how the US would get the North Vietnamese to accept this, but I just feel this would be the way for Nixon to do this, and with his success in regards to regularizing relations with China, I could see how he feels he could get the North Vietnamese to work something out.

As for other issues in his term, Nixon would probably still try to fix inflation by having tax cuts, but he'd also still be seen as spending too much by passing things like the Education for All Handicapped Children Act, and many in his own party might argue that this is a state issue and that since the states deal more directly with education, this will be seen as a way for the feds to get more control of education, and many will see Nixon as simply trying to expand government, against many in his party, and as well as conservative Democrats. He'd also probably speak out against Roe Vs. Wade, but not necessarily against abortion, saying again that its a state's rights issue. While some pro lifers would not be happy, many conservatives would argue its better than the status quo after Roe, and you'd many Republicans and even a good number of Democrats at this time argue that Roe went too far and thus, you see Republicans try to make bills that restrict abortion access and also campaign for the court to take a case to reverse it. Nixon also voices opposition to school bussing, and tries to smooth it over by emphasizing the importance of neighborhood schools and emphasizing that school districts need to focus on better schools for all rather than diverse schools saying that "better education is going to help more than dropping children from all over kingdom come into one classroom hoping things will work out."

In regards to elections in 74, if Nixon is in, I still think that the Democrats still get a lot of seats but not as many as OTL. I'd say that 270 is probably where they land, meaning they do have a big majority in the house. In the Senate the Democrats lose seats and notably regarding OTL, Patrick Leahy is defeated in Vermont, and Richard Lugar becomes Senator in Indiana, though the Democrats still hold 55 seats, putting them in the majority.

In the end, with no Watergate, Nixon is seen as a decently competent President, and is particularly lauded for his visit to China and for brokering peace in Vietnam, even if many in his own party don't see it as much of a victory. He also is lauded for creating things like the EPA, but again many conservatives still feel that his presidency spent too much and in their opinion, kept liberal and moderate republicans on life support.

As such in 1976, the Republican primary to me looks like a less intense version of 1964, with Regan leading the Conservatives, Rockefeller leading the liberals, and Gerald Ford and George HW Bush trying as moderates to keep the party together. However it becomes evident that with such challengers, Reagan wins in a plurality in the early primary states, with Reagan winning Iowa and New Hampshire, and forcing and Rockefeller to drop out. Reagan does lose earlier New England primaries in Massachussetts and Vermont, as well as Illinois, but wins in Florida, comes a close second in Wisconsin and racks up victories in many southern and western states and eventually wins in Ohio. Reagan then wins the nomination and choses Bob Dole of Kansas as his running mate.

As for the Democrats, with no Watergate, the primaries are wide open. Jimmy Carter still runs, along with Mo Udall, George Wallace, and Scoop Jackson. Carter still picks up a victory in Iowa, but few seem concerned. With Carter unable to play the Washington outsider game, and George Wallace also running, Carter still picks up some delegates but in the end, Mo Udall comes out on top and is the nominee, Lloyd Bentsen nominated as Vice President, thus providing a link to the South while still having a more moderate ticket.

In the end, Udall wins a close race, and in particular, closely wins a number of midwestern states, while Reagan sweeps the South and in the west, only loses in Oregon, Washington and New Mexico. While some Republicans argue that this shows that Reagan and the conservative movement are not as palatable to those in middle America, Conservatives see it as a sign that they are winning and Reagan himself says he'd be ready to go again if necessary. In the Senate, a 50/50 tie also occurs, though the Vice President is the tie breaker. Meanwhile in the house the Democrats lose seats but still have 255, keeping their majority.

With Udall in the White House, the main focuses domestically are fixing stagflation, providing healthcare for all, and working for environmental protection. Udall does end up supporting a universal healthcare plan and it does make it through the house in 1977 it is stopped in the Senate as a few conservative Democrats vote against it, though an employer mandate to provide catastrophic insurance does pass. It is with the economy though that Udall struggles. While the economy grows and unemployment shrinks, inflation continues to rise and with the energy crisis of 1979, Udall seems clueless on the economy. However, he does get praise for his environmental record and does get credit among some for promoting green energy at its early stages.

In foreign policy, the big thing is going to be that there will beno Camp David Accords and as a result there might be future troubles between Egypt and Israel, as while Menachim Begin does support leaving the Sinai, many Israelis do not, and thus Egypt and the Arab world continues to not recognize Israel, though Sadat does still try to work on some sort of peace deal, though relations remain tense. There also is the Iran hostage crisis which mostly plays out like in OTL and the Panama Canal Treaty, where Udall makes a deal to let Panama have control by the end of 1999 as in OTL.

By this point, Udall, much like Carter is defeated by Reagan, and in the end things are not too different. Udall, like Carter is seen as a failure, though among liberals he is still more liked than Carter, though he doesn't have the humanitarian record like Carter in OTL. He loses the 1980 election by a larger margin than Carter, though he does get 110 electoral votes, with New York being the largest state he wins along with Minnesota and Wisconsin. As for Carter, he tries to run for senate in Georgia in 1980 but loses, in a year where the Democrats fall to only 33 seats and lose the house.

So basically there are a few differences, but in the end not much. Basically Jimmy Carter is unknown outside of Georgia, Nixon is has a bit of a better reputation, and there might be a bit of delay in peace between Israel and Egpyt. I'm sure it would cause more butterflies but that's just what I see looking at all of this. Maybe a different Democrat running in 84 against Reagan like Gary Hart or even Ted Kennedy, though I don't see the latter if he doesn't get the boost from challenging Carter.
If Chappaquiddick doesn't happen, do you think Ted Kennedy could win in 76? If so, does his term go better or worse than Carter's?
 
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