What would be the results of African colonization in the events of a Napoleonic victory?
- Thread starter Fries
- Start date
We're gonna need to know what the political climate is like. Napoleon would die by 1821, because of stomach cancer. At this time, Nappy Jr would be age eleven.
Idk much about #2, but in all honesty I think that the Germans and Italians would break away from French orbit in those seven years. Poland will likely stay bros. Spain is the hard part.
But France will likely have first dibs. However what they take at this alt Confrence of Berlin (Paris Conference?) Will depend on what they have elsewhere. Hell, maybe in a (relatively for them) minor war, Napoleon II takes Egypt from Britain and they dominate the eastern part of the continent with it. Or instead of Algiers, TTL Napoleon III decides he wants a monopoly on Guinea/The Gold/Ivory/Slave coast
Idk much about #2, but in all honesty I think that the Germans and Italians would break away from French orbit in those seven years. Poland will likely stay bros. Spain is the hard part.
But France will likely have first dibs. However what they take at this alt Confrence of Berlin (Paris Conference?) Will depend on what they have elsewhere. Hell, maybe in a (relatively for them) minor war, Napoleon II takes Egypt from Britain and they dominate the eastern part of the continent with it. Or instead of Algiers, TTL Napoleon III decides he wants a monopoly on Guinea/The Gold/Ivory/Slave coast
I don't think France could reasonably exclude Britain from Africa, given that (a) Britain already has territory in Africa, and (b) the Royal Navy.
Britain will want land in Africa, even if it is to prevent France from having it. And also territory to protect the line to India; which is doubly important if France controls Egypt.
France will probably still want Algeria, given the fact that it is right there, although it might be a protectorate rather than an outright colony. If France gets Egypt, it might also want to control Tunisia and Libya as well. Possibly even Morocco, though Spain might also want it due to the "it's right there" principle. Egypt might well be a proxy for France, expanding down the Nile, which could lead to French interest in East Africa.
Britain will be pouring money into the pockets of anti-French factions in French puppets. There might even be a chronic case of "oops, I accidentally left crates of weapons unguarded on the dock again. I am so clumsy".
Britain will want land in Africa, even if it is to prevent France from having it. And also territory to protect the line to India; which is doubly important if France controls Egypt.
France will probably still want Algeria, given the fact that it is right there, although it might be a protectorate rather than an outright colony. If France gets Egypt, it might also want to control Tunisia and Libya as well. Possibly even Morocco, though Spain might also want it due to the "it's right there" principle. Egypt might well be a proxy for France, expanding down the Nile, which could lead to French interest in East Africa.
Britain will be pouring money into the pockets of anti-French factions in French puppets. There might even be a chronic case of "oops, I accidentally left crates of weapons unguarded on the dock again. I am so clumsy".
xsampa
Banned
Brazil might possess Angola but I expect Britain to annex the Portuguese colonies in a Napoleonic Victory.
This isn't certain. If he remains in France instead of being sent to St. Helena, his health could be different.
Lusitania
Donor
Why would Britain Annex anything, Brazil does not exist. Kingdom of Portugal and Brazil with a capital in Rio would continue to control all Portuguese colonies. A Napoleonic victory means Iberian peninsula under french control till 1820s but not matter what still be hard to control.
Brazil would administer the colonies "on behalf of" Portugal. Angola will be more directly aligned to Rio than Lisbon if Brazil has anything to say about it.
Lusitania
Donor
Ok but you are not understanding if Napoleão wins then portugal is governed from Rio there is no Brazil and kingdom stays together.
Portuguese royal family and many nobles escaped to Rio in 1807. So they stay there. This is different than Spain where royal family was captured and Napoleon put his brother on Spanish throne. The Spanish colonies were on their own.
That is not what happen to Portuguese they moved their capital to Rio and stayed there governing the kingdom. In this case they stay there no Portuguese noble going to return to Lisbon that most likely a republic.
Grey Wolf
Donor
Africa is African. I think that people don't understand how relatively slow over the course of the ENTIRE 19th century the Scramble for Africa [sic] occurred - Fashoda and the Niger crisis were at the end of the 1890s!
Brandenburg, the Netherlands (*if it exists), and Denmark all already have African colonies, especially in the Ghana region
Oman later schisming to Zanzibar in the South was a massive regional power, not entirely formal but it's slavers controlled lands reaching deep into Tanganyika towards the Congo
France owes money to Algiers - and Napoleon in borrowing it has basically committed to seeing the Dey as an equal here, unlike Charles X who would insult him and bring about the war that led to French conquest.
The Barbary States have fought a war, against the USA at the least. They are defeated but not destroyed. Theoretically they are vassals of the Ottomans, and OTL would at least send ships to help them during the Greek war, but in reality Istanbul has little influence on their affairs otherwise
Egypt is completely in the mix in this period
Brandenburg, the Netherlands (*if it exists), and Denmark all already have African colonies, especially in the Ghana region
Oman later schisming to Zanzibar in the South was a massive regional power, not entirely formal but it's slavers controlled lands reaching deep into Tanganyika towards the Congo
France owes money to Algiers - and Napoleon in borrowing it has basically committed to seeing the Dey as an equal here, unlike Charles X who would insult him and bring about the war that led to French conquest.
The Barbary States have fought a war, against the USA at the least. They are defeated but not destroyed. Theoretically they are vassals of the Ottomans, and OTL would at least send ships to help them during the Greek war, but in reality Istanbul has little influence on their affairs otherwise
Egypt is completely in the mix in this period
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Well the fate of North Africa is tied to the fate of the Ottoman Empire, and not only because they’re technically vassals of the Porte; even if the Turks fare badly, say losing control of the Balklans earlier, they’re still enough of a factor that an ongoing Anglo-French rivalry means at least one major European power is going to want to ally with them, which would preclude standard land grab colonialism.
My idea (from a few years back) would be for Britain to support the African beys (including Egypt) in being as de facto independent from Constantinople as possible, and under their influence more than the Turks’. As to how this would influence subsequent African history - I’d say Egypt still invading the Sudan looks likely, but other than that, I couldn’t say.
My idea (from a few years back) would be for Britain to support the African beys (including Egypt) in being as de facto independent from Constantinople as possible, and under their influence more than the Turks’. As to how this would influence subsequent African history - I’d say Egypt still invading the Sudan looks likely, but other than that, I couldn’t say.
Seems more likely that money is gust going to make it more likely that napoleon (or more likely his succeser) invades Algeria.
xsampa
Banned
I expect the Brits to seal everything off from Gibraltar to Aden so North Africa is French/pro-French and the Horn of Africa may be. Portugal in exile holds Angola, Mozambique and possibly Zambia. The Brits have the Cape, Senegal, part of Nigeria, so Western and Southern Africa is theirs. Prussia might actually be allowed to colonize the West coast from Cameroon to Bas-Congo and Eastern Africa as a British semi-ally.