What peace terms could Britain have obtained from Germany at end-1940?

[Mr.Wigglemunch]

The problem with any agreement with Nazi Germany is always the same: Hitler has proven himself to be completely unreliable after the invasion of rump Czechia after Munich. Basicly you couldn't trust him to keep his part of the treaty. So why create peace with him, if you can't be sure Nazi Germany will keep the peace. Ask Stalin what the consequences are.

True. But nevertheless in Hitler's warped mind the British, or more precisely the English were fellow Aryans. Now, whilst his views regarding how Britain should be dealt with flipped and changed with time, the fact they were Aryans was a constant. And at this point in time Hitler wants to go east, it was always his primary goal, and that goal was so vital to him that he was even willing and did go to war with the Soviet Union with Britain in his rear still...

But, that's not to say he's stupid enough to not take the opportunity to have peace amongst his so called beloved Aryans. The issue here is coming to an agreement where both Britain and Germany can save face, and also come to an agreement on spheres of influence etc. The latter I can imagine might be easier that you think, I'm sure Hitler would be happy to throw the Italians under the bus in favour of the British (if an anti Soviet pact is part of a peace agreement), possibly the Japanese too.

Of course, as you state, it's getting them to the table in the first place due to trust. I can only really see this peace agreement as a possibility if Britain joins the war against the Soviet Union. At this point however, after the blitz, I don't see Brits as being down with fighting shoulder alongside Germans.

 

[sendô]

Britain was never going to surrender in 1940, not unless they'd done a France and let the Germans successfully invade their territory, and we all know what would have happened to that much maligned sea mammal.

The reality is, Britain's over riding foreign policy for the preceding 250 years or so had been to oppose any power on the European continent seeking to dominate that continent and thus become too powerful for Britian to resist. A peace, armistice or whatever at this point plays to Germany's long term strategic advantage, andnot Britain's. In any case, the long term strategy at this point for Britain is to drag the USA into the war, and thus ensure greater financial and industrial clout on the Allied side. That was half of the point of Mers-e-Kebir, and Britain is not going to achieve this strategic goal by making peace with it's enemy this early on.

 

[Anti-GrammarNazi]

Britain was never going to surrender in 1940, not unless they'd done a France and let the Germans successfully invade their territory, and we all know what would have happened to that much maligned sea mammal.

The reality is, Britain's over riding foreign policy for the preceding 250 years or so had been to oppose any power on the European continent seeking to dominate that continent and thus become too powerful for Britian to resist. A peace, armistice or whatever at this point plays to Germany's long term strategic advantage, andnot Britain's. In any case, the long term strategy at this point for Britain is to drag the USA into the war, and thus ensure greater financial and industrial clout on the Allied side. That was half of the point of Mers-e-Kebir, and Britain is not going to achieve this strategic goal by making peace with it's enemy this early on.

Wouldn't Britain had been unable to continue the war without the USA´s supplies and economic assistance? If the USA for some reason decides to be truly neutral and does not support the UK, the UK would likely seek peace. Not a surrender, but peace. So there are scenarios (as unlikely as they are) that would have the UK make peace without a German invasion.

 

[Chungus Maximus]

But why? For what? How does that benefit the UK?

Those were the questions that has to be answered then and there.

(and no, brownie points to be redeemed decades later doesn't count)

To stop the Holocaust.

Also, Jewish refugees thankful to Britain for rescuing them would be easier to govern than independence minded Arabs who were revolting every couple years.

 

[Kalga]

To stop the Holocaust.

With what future knowledge would the UK Government even have at this point? The final solution wasn't even formalized at this point and while the nazis were certainly treating the Jews like shit they were also doing similar things to a bunch of other groups.

Also, Jewish refugees thankful to Britain for rescuing them would be easier to govern than independence minded Arabs who were revolting every couple years.

Perhaps, but still not exactly concrete enough to make national policy on.

Edit: also being so obsessed with saving an ethic group that's associated with international conspiracies, won't that just confirm to the Nazis that in fact their paranoia is actually real?

 

[pattersonautobody]

I don't think there would have been any peace that British might have considered "favorable." As pointed out, by the end of 1940, they were doing well one all fronts...so why make peace? It only ruins their momentum when German decides to attack again.

I think a peace is possible with no Churchill as per the OP if the USSR joins the Axis pact. Britain would know that USSR and Japan will have designs on India, and perhaps would sign some sort of peace pact with Germany which is a white peace in western Europe with some sort of war guarantee against Japan or USSR attack British colonial possessions.

In short, Britain becomes an Axis member in this event. Something Hitler would have wanted in all honesty, but Italy and USSR wanted British possessions. Furthermore, Hitler would have never let the USSR into the Axis so in short no peace with Britain is possible.

 

[thaddeus]

I think a peace is possible with no Churchill as per the OP if the USSR joins the Axis pact. Britain would know that USSR and Japan will have designs on India, and perhaps would sign some sort of peace pact with Germany which is a white peace in western Europe with some sort of war guarantee against Japan or USSR attack British colonial possessions.

In short, Britain becomes an Axis member in this event. Something Hitler would have wanted in all honesty, but Italy and USSR wanted British possessions. Furthermore, Hitler would have never let the USSR into the Axis so in short no peace with Britain is possible.

always read that Soviet Axis talks were serious, but Stalin (and Molotov) threw up so many issues it sealed their fate?

 

[creighton]

So kind of like what's going on in this day and age...? Germany kind of won after all?

"Great" Britain screwed themselves when they nestled up to the American teat...IMO.
Not that surrendering Europe to Hitler would have been the right thing to do either.
Rock? meet Hard Place. Hard Place? meet Rock...

IMO; YMMV

It's been a week and I know the thread is dead, but I can't get over this. I still can't get over how you could lose worse than having your nation split between one sphere of influence and straight up puppet stated on the other side. Hitler was the worst possible brainstorm, pre nukes, you could do to Germany's influence on the continent.

*Edit also, post nukes, Germany would have been glassed over by nuclear weapons if any conflict between the two superpowers happened, without any say in it. It's really hard to overstate how wrong this post is.

 

[iron]

It's been a week and I know the thread is dead, but I can't get over this. I still can't get over how you could lose worse than having your nation split between one sphere of influence and straight up puppet stated on the other side. Hitler was the worst possible brainstorm, pre nukes, you could do to Germany's influence on the continent.

*Edit also, post nukes, Germany would have been glassed over by nuclear weapons if any conflict between the two superpowers happened, without any say in it. It's really hard to overstate how wrong this post is.

Ummm...? I'm kind of referring to the situation today with my post, not with the immediate situation after the cessation of hostilities.

In case you somehow missed it?

There has only been one "Germany" on the map of the world for quite some time now.
As I said initially? YMMV.