"What Madness Is This?" Volume II: Prophecies in the Dark

[PNWKing]

I grew up in an off-the-grid Christian commune. Here's what I know about America's religious beliefs

I get that this might get the thread locked, but this is honestly reminiscent of WMIT. I feel like Brother Sam and Herbert W. Armstrong are both interesting figures to play with ITTL. I think there's all kinds of figures that could be Second Prophets-in-Waiting before Billy Graham.

 

[Proudly individualist]

I grew up in an off-the-grid Christian commune. Here's what I know about America's religious beliefs

I get that this might get the thread locked, but this is honestly reminiscent of WMIT. I feel like Brother Sam and Herbert W. Armstrong are both interesting figures to play with ITTL. I think there's all kinds of figures that could be Second Prophets-in-Waiting before Billy Graham.

Calbear already told you the last time. This belongs in chat.

The article it's weird as well. It seems to insinuate the whole of Christianity in America is cultish and brutal in nature and those christian groups that aren't are hiding it or something, because they don't like the truth? I thought the "all christians are fundies" take had gone out of fashion by the mid-2010s.

 

[Coolio]

I feel like that article should really belong in chat.
As the last thing that I want is for this thread to be shut down as Napo has worked really hard for the past three years creating a community that I am proud to be a part of and I want it to keep growing.
That's why I am begging you to stop as in that article you linked there is very controversial topic's and group's that should not be mentioned due to how problematic they are to any discussion.
So please get rid of it as I truly enjoy the discussion's that I have with my fellow posters as I have met people that I am proud to call friends and want to continue this ride until the end.

 

[Murica1776]

Gonna reiterate calls to put it in Chat. I would hope Cal doesn't lock the thread since by and large we stick to topic.

 

[Born in the USSA]

Don't you dare get this thread locked on me! It's one of the purest of life's pleasures and I won't have you ruining it, and at any rate the only Second Prophet-in-Waiting of any consequence is Pennington and he's been defenestrated already. Armitage *MAYBE* could have been a shadow candidate in a worst case Taboritsky-style scenario but in that case better to split the difference and have Lovecraft take up the mantle.

 

[ZeroFrame]

I grew up in an off-the-grid Christian commune. Here's what I know about America's religious beliefs

I get that this might get the thread locked, but this is honestly reminiscent of WMIT. I feel like Brother Sam and Herbert W. Armstrong are both interesting figures to play with ITTL. I think there's all kinds of figures that could be Second Prophets-in-Waiting before Billy Graham.

If you think that dragging current politics into a TL that has nothing to do with current political figures will get the thread locked then why are you doing it?

Can you please just not bring current politics randomly into this thread? It’s against the rules and no one has shown interest in discussing current politics in this thread.

 

[PobreCesar]

"What if the Immolation of Mexico failed?" I asked, attempting to maneuver back to safer ground. I assume that this would prompt social revolution from within the RU, which would draw paticular strength in the central areas which would fear the invasion of a Catholic Power. The revolutionaries would probably feel that the RU, by virtue of having an organized clergy and secret meetings was "Too Papist" and would spread a sort of Spiritual Anarchism. The AFC would denounce them as crypto-Beutalists. Europa would seize Cuba. I'm still figuring out how this would impact WW1.

 

[AK47Productions]

I'm still figuring out how this would impact WW1.

A weakened RU could mean an inverse of canon's GWW, with the Bonapartists and the Mexicans invading the central and southern RU. That's just off the top of my head.

 

[PobreCesar]

SNIP

Right, but Canada still lacks population density and Mexico is the exact sort of insufficiently industrialized, etc. country that would collapse under the strain of WW1. So I would say on balance that the RU still overruns Canada and Northern Mexico whilst the Mexican heartland collapses into some sort of SuperCatholic-Communist hybrid. (That's an original sentence). The RU's populace probably feels that their leadership sold them out by not taking all of Mexico and becomes (more) fascist. (We've probably butterflied Custer's reign, so the ideology and stuff is presumably different) I don't think the RU would be able to take all of Mexico here because with the strain of the revolution after the last war, they would have a weaker military and command structure.

 

[PNWKing]

Well, from what we've seen, Oswald's inner circle is going to be Leslie King, Richard Nixon, Uther Pendragon Rockwell, and Billy Graham.

 

[PobreCesar]

Leslie King, Richard Nixon, Uther Pendragon Rockwell, and Billy Graham

LBJ as well, though I recall him having a different name

an inverse of canon's GWW

Would definitely be interesting

 

[CalBear]

I grew up in an off-the-grid Christian commune. Here's what I know about America's religious beliefs

I get that this might get the thread locked, but this is honestly reminiscent of WMIT. I feel like Brother Sam and Herbert W. Armstrong are both interesting figures to play with ITTL. I think there's all kinds of figures that could be Second Prophets-in-Waiting before Billy Graham.

1. if you think you are posting something that will get a thread locked DO NOT POST IT!

2. Keep This Sort of Thing in Chat.

Don't push your luck.

 

[PobreCesar]

It was here that Patton had been performing abominable acts as the Congo Dam began to flood central Africa, killing tens of thousands of people.

Going back a few chapters here, but no one in the RU cares about the later. All anyone obsesses over is "Patton's abominable acts". Certainly, they were deeply immoral. But so is murdering tens of thousands of people.


On a different note, does the RU ever have any dissenters? Anyone who pulls a Bartholome de las Casas and realizes that they are doing horrible things? I mean, ORRA has to keep busy assassinating someone when they're not being tricked, backstabbed, and quite possibly, bamboozled, into serving worm cultists or Zap Zephyr fans.

 

[Gallinatus]

View attachment 662299

"What if the Immolation of Mexico failed?" I asked, attempting to maneuver back to safer ground. I assume that this would prompt social revolution from within the RU, which would draw paticular strength in the central areas which would fear the invasion of a Catholic Power. The revolutionaries would probably feel that the RU, by virtue of having an organized clergy and secret meetings was "Too Papist" and would spread a sort of Spiritual Anarchism. The AFC would denounce them as crypto-Beutalists. Europa would seize Cuba. I'm still figuring out how this would impact WW1.

I'd say Carolina uses the opportunity of the revolts to re-unite the south under their banner, Possibly the Oregon territory breaks off and becomes a protectorate of Russia, And if I remember correctly the great lakes region had some of the highest Infee populations for use in industrial slavery which would seriously imperil communication with the west if they revolted. I don't know if any natives still exist by this time but they may also do something.

By WW1 it could be a commu-christian R.U. successor state allied with Russia (promising reunification with the western territories) against a New South (wipe out the yankees once and for all) allied with France.

 

[Napoleon53]

My goodness, some drama. Lol Yes, please do not post modern topics here. This TL is so far removed from current modern politics that it might as well be Lord of the Rings. Also, I want to repeat the fact that I myself am a Christian and in no way is the AFC/ORRA/NUSA/RU/etc based on the religious right of present day, or really anyone from right now. They are based on Victorian and Edwardian "Christian" Socialists and Spiritualists, as well as the weird IBLP-knockoff sect I grew up in under my father and other more famous cults of history. The whole joke is how little they actually even talk about Jesus, love, forgiveness, or redemption (beyond a penal battalion and a state built on dead Indians) because they have their heads shoved so far up their own asses. There are almost zero mentions of Christ in the entire WMIT timeline. This is deliberate.

Anyway, I have some NUTS stuff coming up with Jennings, Miskatonic, Steele's son, etc. I also have plans for an update written as tour guidebook of the Tobias Institute. Stay tuned!

 

[John Spangler]

Anyway, I have some NUTS stuff coming up with Jennings, Miskatonic, Steele's son, etc. I also have plans for an update written as tour guidebook of the Tobias Institute. Stay tuned!

I am scared and excited at the same time.

 

[Proudly individualist]

We've probably butterflied Custer's reign,

Not sure about that. The Inmolation of Mexico happened in Curter's reign. We've radically changed his reign and butterflied away everything that came after him, but his government would still have existed.

Also, I want to repeat the fact that I myself am a Christian and in no way is the AFC/ORRA/NUSA/RU/etc based on the religious right of present day, or really anyone from right now. They are based on Victorian and Edwardian "Christian" Socialists and Spiritualists, as well as the weird IBLP-knockoff sect I grew up in under my father and other more famous cults of history.

Sometimes I think some people hasn't understood yet that part.

There are almost zero mentions of Christ in the entire WMIT timeline. This is deliberate.

Yes! I knew there was something to it.

Anyway, I have some NUTS stuff coming up with Jennings, Miskatonic, Steele's son, etc.

Ooh, can't stand the hype.

 

[traveller76]

Going back a few chapters here, but no one in the RU cares about the later. All anyone obsesses over is "Patton's abominable acts". Certainly, they were deeply immoral. But so is murdering tens of thousands of people.

On a different note, does the RU ever have any dissenters? Anyone who pulls a Bartholome de las Casas and realizes that they are doing horrible things? I mean, ORRA has to keep busy assassinating someone when they're not being tricked, backstabbed, and quite possibly, bamboozled, into serving worm cultists or Zap Zephyr fans.

You have several problems being a dissenter.
1. You do not know who to trust. Your family members, neighbors, co-workers could have members in the military, RUMP, CYA or ORRA and could report you.

2. The news and entertainment is censored by the government and the Clans. There will not be reports of certain crimes, corruption and atrocities until people are arrested or tried and even then the government will look good in the articles. Negative articles and papers will be few and far between and held up as 'Infee or Papist propaganda'

3. There is no example of freedom or progress to look up to or run to. Europa, the Illuminists, Austria and so on have censors, secret police and prisons just like the RU.

4. It takes dramatic circumstances to make a person give up a comfortable life. For the average Pinnacle or non-Infee they have security, a job, a home and family. There will be those who may have seen or participated in atrocities who pass it off as 'fog of war, kill or be killed'. Some may blunt it with alcohol or drugs and there are those who disappear one day while going to the market or who suffer an accident which is never solved. People will police themselves.

 

[Proudly individualist]

I've realized... I actually don't know why the RU/NUSA economy is christian socialist, how that socialistic system works or how it's implemented, how it came out and what's the theory behind it.

 

[Scrivener]

Has anyone realized that the old WMIT Volume One threadmarks are broken when you try to view them all at the same time? It's really putting a damper on my reread of Volume One.