"What Madness Is This?" Redux: The Union Forever

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Napoleon53, Sep 13, 2018.

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  1. Napoleon53 Order of Monocled Sirs ಠ_ರೃ

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    Fantastic map, Super! The only change I'd make is Porto Rico. I'm very entertained by that now.

    The Protector of the Faith calls himself Scourge of God. And the Dalai Lama declared him God of War. Doesn't get much more nutso than that. Lol

    Also, speaking of Russia, they will be key in one of the next, if not the next, chapter.
     
  2. raffaele gaggioli Well-Known Member

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    Actually wouldn't this create some friction between Victor and the orthodox church (especially in Bulgaria, Romania and Serbia)? I mean the guy basically workships Gengis Khan and his obsession with oriental culture probably raised a few eyebrows both inside and outside Russia.
    Considering the League Of Tsars already kicked him out, could they try to separate themself from the orthodox church in Moscow ( like Uckraine did recently)?
     
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  3. John Spangler A man of wealth and taste

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    This'd be an interesting development, one that could cause a lot of troubles in the future. If this happened, Victor could even try to launch a crusade against the League of Tsars. And it could even lead to his downfall.
     
  4. Ameroboto Deep State Bad Hombre

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  5. John Spangler A man of wealth and taste

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  6. Vuu Resident Serb expert

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    That's probably the hardest part. Downright impossible, actually. It's notoriously avoidant of getting into political things beyond the most surface level, and extremely unchangeable as well. Remember the little fact that there is no main Patriarch who has the authority over everything like the Pope does. So no "Balkans break away from Moscow" because they never even were a part of it's patriarchate. Literally any decision also requires that each and every single Patriarch agree with it, which is why the Ukrainian church thing is quite literally illegitimate, because only the patriarch of Constantinople approved it, and nobody gives him any significance since... 1453.

    Politicians committing atrocities and the church silently approving it? Already OTL, I think that's as far as you can get.
     
  7. John Spangler A man of wealth and taste

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    Sad, but true.
     
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  8. Time Enough Nightmare angel of the Tea Rooms

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    I can see Illumanist movements surviving and even influence the politics of the NordReich and beyond. I can see several years after all the chaos, a more Socialist style Government being formed by the Queen as a way to cool the resentment of the Working Class.

    For example a few years after the Red Clydeside period in the UK, a Labour Government was elected in. Now I know that the NordReich isn't a democracy but I could see reforms being pushed through in minor ways.
     
  9. halfcoop Well-Known Member

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    So your saying the dream of the anarcho-monarchy is possible!
     
  10. Time Enough Nightmare angel of the Tea Rooms

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    Not Anarcho-Monarchy...Socialist or even a Syndicalist Monarchy on the other hand maybe...or maybe even a MonBol Government. Anything is possible in WMIT.
     
  11. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    I know I've been saying this a lot, but I can't overstate how hilarious/awesome I find this.

    I feel like Carolinian Africa would be an outpost of cultural reaction (even by Carolinian standards). I also think a hilarious development would either be some sort of Afrikaans-Carolinian monstrosity of a dialect, or if the colonists developed over the top Southern accents (again, even by Carolina standards) as a way to show that they "ain't goin native."

    I honestly feel like there would be a lot of intermarriage and friendly exchange between Afrikaners/South African Dutch and the Carolinians. They both have deeply Calvinistic Protestant views (Afrikaner Calvinism and Presbyterianism respectively). They're both surrounded by hostile natives (as long as they don't do something exceptionally nasty), reinforcing a fortress mentality and harsh racism. They also likely have very strict patriarchal views (even by WMIT standards) and are obsessed with the right of free white men to acquire property and protect it with lethal force. It's a match made in white supremacist heaven.

    In fact, an interesting thing would be for the two cultures to perhaps slowly merge into one bizarre, insane hybrid.

    EDIT: Ok, I feel gross for even suggesting this, but what the hell this is WMIT where the star of the show is nutty Fascist Victorian super-Murica. Let's say the Carolinian and Afrikaner colonists get along very well and they decide to go a more genocidal route with the natives. Then, maybe something happens to one or both home countries. You have the setup for Redneck Afrikaner Draka. Which is a sentence I never thought I would type, lol.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  12. Simeon La empresa crecerá más grande

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  13. Born in the USSA Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, when the Dutch eventually fall some crazy super-Jacksonland is pretty much inevitable, and cultural mixing between the Carolinian settlers/South African Dutch/Kappist Germans will create a culture pretty distinct from the homeland. If down the line CoCaro has some sort of plebiscite to join the Union (maybe leading to the creation of NUSA in this version), the pro-independence faction could spin Jacksonland off as an independent Yankee vassal. It would be amusing if Philadelphia values CoCaro more as a subservient neighbor and has absolutely nothing to do with trying to win the plebiscite, only to get swept up in the public tide of jingoistic Yankee fervor. Meanwhile the idea of the last real bastion of Southern pride ITTL being a colony in Africa stuffed to the gills with European exiles makes me smile. Hell they could even call themselves the Confederation of Columbia when they gain independence!

    *Edit- I also have been wondering if Lincolnia will use the instability of the German home front to try and grow a little bit before the Kaiserin shows up to set up shop in whatever's left of Mittelafrika.
     
  14. Born in the USSA Well-Known Member

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    If they do inaugurate the Confederation of Columbia they could finally avert the otherwise hilarious Directional Carolina meme and give each culture region a real name to create buy-in with the national project. You could have Jacksonland, Kappland, Yonderland, and Riebeeksland (or Kaapland, but that might just be confusing), creating a new meme as they spread toward Europan Africa like a rash of mostly just tacking "land" on to the end of a name or word when they expand.
     
  15. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    While this is a funny thought, I find it really unlikely. Anti-black racism has had even more time to soak in than it did in the other Southron countries, which is by itself a hindrance to integration. Plus, I view Carolina as being like OTL Canada; a huge part of their national identity and sense of self is constructed around not being Yankees. What I actually find more likely is that Oswald goes all nutty-crusader on Carolina to "reunify the last of the Union" and declares NUSA, but even he knows invading a substantial portion of Southern Africa filled to the gills with angry white supremacists hiding in the African brush is a bad idea. Thus the Confederation of Columbia is formed.

    What would be perfect is if after NUSA inevitably collapses, the Confederation joins an international coalition to tear apart as much of Yankeeland as they can, and they take back "rightful Carolinian land," which includes the pre-GAW South. They then reform CoCaro in a delightfully insane ceremony.
     
  16. Born in the USSA Well-Known Member

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    I'm not necessarily saying that CoCaro would become a state, per se, maybe it's just a much closer union. They give up foreign adventurism and spin off Jacksonland, but keep their colonies and a certain degree of internal autonomy. I like the idea that the RU project to subvert Carolina works beyond their wildest dreams and Philadelphia against its will ends up with what amounts to a state that behaves like it's in a federation (like OTL) rather than a completely subservient subunit (like all the other states TTL). Turns out riling up citizens on both sides of the border for a hundred years can get out of hand, huh? It would do a good deal to show that for all its impossible efficiency the RU intelligence apparatus can actually work TOO well.
     
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  17. Born in the USSA Well-Known Member

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    This would also continue the thing I love most about the timeline: the RU is a fascist dictatorship that subverts OTL fascist conventions. They're genuinely concerned with the plight of the protected class of citizens, they're racially tolerant of blacks and Jews, and they're actually SO efficient that it still comes back to inconvenience them.
     
  18. Ameroboto Deep State Bad Hombre

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    Or....
    An Edu department store in Holy Nippon, which was granted its independence back as part of the Oswaldian Reforms. (c. 1962)
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
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  19. Born in the USSA Well-Known Member

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  20. Born in the USSA Well-Known Member

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    On another note I can't believe we're not even into the 1920's yet! We have potentially another century to go, this is gonna be a wild ride!
     
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