What if the “TRS-80 Color” eclipses the Apple “Mac” — and becomes the biggest IBM “PC clone” as well?

[Dancing Fool]

Golden Age of TRS-80: A Look Back at RadioShack Computers

Did you use any of these classic machines in the 1970s and 80s?

www.pcmag.com

Tandy Radio Shack brought out that color version in 1980. And games seem like they’d have broader appeal than a spread sheet program. It’s perhaps worth pointing out that 3 out of 4 new businesses fail.

But please show me a way in which the TRS-80 has a bigger market share than both Apple and the IBM-compatible Dell?

LATER EDIT: I added “ — and becomes the biggest IBM “PC clone” as well?” to the title.

 

[psteinx]

Err, you're rather off on early computer history.

TRS-80 was a fairly early computer, sort of ~1978-1981, competing with, and losing to, the Apple II lineup.

For home use, at the time, computers were much cheaper, and didn't really catch on until the TRS-80 line was on fumes, at best. Commodore 64 (circa 1983-1986) was perhaps the most successful in this category, but other competitors included the Atari 400/800 (early) and Atari ST line (later), the Commodore Vic-20 (early), TI 99 4/A (early-ish).

Dell wasn't a major player until somewhat later (1986 fwd, roughly?)

The Mac didn't come out until 1984, and was VERY expensive, for a while.

IBM PC came out in '81 or '82 I think, but didn't really catch on as a HOME computer (including for games) until a bit later - circa 86 and forward. The early IBM PC was very expensive, and had very limited graphics and sound capability. Clones and general cheapening of computers helped on the price, and various better graphics standards (CGA, then EGA, then VGA) helped on that front.

And of course, for games, there were ~dedicated games machines (Atari VCS, Intellivision, etc.) through that era. Some of them tried to cross the other way (keyboard add-ons to become "computers"), but generally with VERY limited success.

The above is a fairly US-centric view. Things were somewhat different in Europe and other places.

 

[ehbowen]

I'm not going to derail this thread, but on a personal level I wonder what might have come about had the Commodore Amiga become the dominant personal computer of the late 1980s...?

 

[Nivek]

Golden Age of TRS-80: A Look Back at RadioShack Computers

Did you use any of these classic machines in the 1970s and 80s?

www.pcmag.com

Tandy Radio Shack brought out that color version in 1980. And games seem like they’d have broader appeal than a spread sheet program. It’s perhaps worth pointing out that 3 out of 4 new businesses fail.

But please show me a way in which the TRS-80 has a bigger market share than both Apple and the IBM-compatible Dell?

@psteinx already mentioned, trs -80 was too late when Apple 2 already got his base

 

[Dancing Fool]

@psteinx already mentioned, trs -80 was too late when Apple 2 already got his base

Mmm, once upon a time, Radio Shack had more stores than McDonalds. Yes, really.

And then, IBM-compatible was potentially a bigger market than Apple, and I think still is as far as desktops [don’t know about phones, but that’s still more than a decade from 1980].

 

[Dancing Fool]

The Mac didn't come out until 1984, and was VERY expensive, for a while.

But wouldn’t that give TRS-80 Color, and I think color is a market necessity, more than enough to carve out a dominant position?

 

[Nivek]

Mmm, once upon a time, Radio Shack had more stores than McDonalds. Yes, really.

And then, IBM-compatible was potentially a bigger market than Apple, and I think still is as far as desktops [don’t know about phones, but that’s still more than a decade from 1980].

You truly make honor to your name, regardless the main thing is seems radio Shack like Walmart,got those PC for someone else ,the software is the computer , that's why we have the term killer app, you need the proper software for RadioShack get support and people serious about their own software should make their own hardware, not getting PC from others OEM

 

[psteinx]

But wouldn’t that give TRS-80 Color, and I think color is a market necessity, more than enough to carve out a dominant position?

Long time ago, so my memory is thin, but IIRC:

Apple II had the nascent business market.

TRS-80 was mostly priced to compete in the biz market, not consumer (too expensive). Apple also had the education market, TRS-80 not.

On the lower end, cheaper computers that played games and did home stuff, there were a lot of computers around the $200 price point. TRS-80 was much higher. TRS-80 was a DEEP also-ran (in the US anyways), well behind such computers as the VIC-20, TI 99 4/A, and later, C-64.

 

[Dancing Fool]

You truly make honor to your name,

Really ? ? We disagree about business history and you’re going to call me a fool. Wow. I thought our site here was a little better than that.

 

[Dancing Fool]

Tandy, mostly, is 6,150 Radio Shacks';NEWLN:McDonalds' of electronics expects - UPI Archives

They call it the McDonald's of the electronics world....

www.upi.com

July 13, 1981:

“ . . . Today, Radio Shack has 150 Computer Centers. . . ”

*********************

They don’t trust their regular sales people. I have a friend who worked at Radio Shack around 1981, and that was also his experience.

 

[psteinx]

But wouldn’t that give TRS-80 Color, and I think color is a market necessity, more than enough to carve out a dominant position?

To more directly address your point.

I don't think the TRS-80 color and the Mac really existed in the same space. Maybe some tiny overlaps, but not really.

Years apart (at a time when ~2 years meant a HUGE difference in price and/or capability).
The first Mac (128K) was a bit underpowered, but the second (512K), which came shortly after was quite powerful. I don't know the specs on the TRS-80 line, but I assume they were low end.

Yes, early Macs were black and white, but that was to enable a high rez display at a time when color computers (there were many) were significantly lower rez. And the high-rez display allowed the GUI interface, which was Mac's main selling point.

But, even so, Mac was mostly a niche product, around 10% of the high-end marketplace. IBM PCs and clones were almost the entire rest of that marketplace. TRS-80 was, I think, gone by that point.

 

[Insane Ranter]

Fix the keyboard issue of it not being sealed and causing "bounce". Allow the use of lower case letters. All the selling of non-Tandy software in Radio Shack or stop cutting corners on their own software development.

I think these were the major issues.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

I would have been happy: the Moto 6809 was my favorite MPU.

But I don't think an extended 8-bit architecture could sustain a major high end presence for much longer. Motorola was committed to the 68000 for the future.

 

[Nebogipfel]

Tandy Radio Shack brought out that color version in 1980. And games seem like they’d have broader appeal than a spread sheet program. It’s perhaps worth pointing out that 3 out of 4 new businesses fail.

But please show me a way in which the TRS-80 has a bigger market share than both Apple and the IBM-compatible Dell?

As already pointed out, the TRS-80 was a bit early compared to the IBM clones. Given the overwhelming success of the IBM/DOS clones I wonder if any competitor really had a serious chance, even Apple/MAC had a near death experience in the 90s. See, for example, what happened to Atari or the once dominating Commodore - all gone and mostly forgotten. Yes, the Amiga was a great machine, and still...
So the only realistic POD in my opinion is IBM avoiding the consumer market altogether (or delaying the decision until some competing system/OS becomes standard).
I guess some better follow-up model might have helped, and that ATL the 8bit machines would have had another generation of machines in them.

 

[Dancing Fool]

A Eulogy for RadioShack | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

2014:

“ . . . My opinion of them started to go south about a decade ago when they began insisting that they needed to know my zipcode every time I bought something. That was very fishy and heralded their sad decline, I think. . . ”

**********
My friend said the same thing who worked for them around 1981. One of the numbers the store was judged on was the percentage of addresses they got. The manager said, Just tell the customer we’re updating the mailing list. And if they come in three days later, this manager says, Just tell them the exact same thing. Wow.

It’s a small thing.

But it’s one more thing getting in the way of a professional sales force. And just like an auto dealership, you need a professional sales force able to sell a complex product, without overwhelming the customer with a bunch of technical details. In fact, keeping the transaction streamlined.

 

[Dancing Fool]

But, even so, Mac was mostly a niche product, around 10% of the high-end marketplace.

So, the luxury car section of the market so to speak.

 

[Dancing Fool]

As already pointed out, the TRS-80 was a bit early compared to the IBM clones. Given the overwhelming success of the IBM/DOS clones I wonder if any competitor really had a serious chance, even Apple/MAC had a near death experience in the 90s.

Then why didn’t Radio Shack go lateral and build a clone?

They had the manufacturing experience. They had the stores. I’m guessing part of the problem is that they didn’t really have the right kind of professional sales force.

 

[Otakuninja2006]

Cool!

 

[Nebogipfel]

Then why didn’t Radio Shack go lateral and build a clone?

They had the manufacturing experience. They had the stores. I’m guessing part of the problem is that they didn’t really have the right kind of professional sales force.

They did - IIRC, one of the first proper clones actually (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_1000).

 

[Dancing Fool]

They did - IIRC, one of the first proper clones actually (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_1000).

Tandy 1000 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

“ . . . Released in November 1984,[1] the $1,200 Tandy 1000 offers the same functionality as the PCjr, but with an improved keyboard and better expandability and compatibility.[4][5][6] "How could IBM have made that mistake with the PCjr?" an amazed Tandy executive said regarding its chiclet keyboard,[7] and another claimed that the 1000 "is what the PCjr should have been".[6] . . ”

**********************

Thank you.

It sounds like this one actually had a chance. Maybe it just wasn’t quite the combo of features and price that customers most wanted.