What If Santa Ana died at the Alamo

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by TonyVee, Aug 24, 2008.

  1. TonyVee New Member

    Aug 21, 2008
    Bakersfield CA
    I am currently working on a time line for a d20 game where Texas Revolution took a turn with Santa Anna getting killed (in the time line just before the final assault on the Alamo) and the repercussions of that event as well as the Republic of Texas deciding to stay an independent nation.

    Right now I have it up to the American Civil war, and I am starting to run out of ideas, because I am not sure how the Republic of Texas would react with the USA going to war with itself not to mention all of the other repercussions.

  2. Tocomocho My other car is a steam tank.

    Aug 1, 2006
    How did you solve the Nueces-Rio Grande dispute?
  3. Herr Frage Jesus Christ Is In Heaven

    Sep 19, 2007
    Behind a black gate and to the left of a grove
    It would be easier to help if you gave us at least a summary of what you have so far. You do not even say whether or not the Texans win at the Alamo or if the Mexicans are galvinised by the deatyh of their general and President.
  4. bernooch Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2007
    yeah..a little more information is needed...other than the continuation of the Lone Star Republic..and the aforementioned mentioned comment about the river border disputes would help.

    If there WAS a American-Mexican War..there could be big changes without Santa Ana around...
  5. Jasen777 Not Even People Donor

    Aug 22, 2006
    Land of the White Walker
    An independent Texas is likely to stay neutral in a U.S. Civil War.

    I hope you have a good reason why Texas didn't join the U.S. like it wanted to.

    Backing up a bit, the death of Santa Ana could easily lead to whoever takes over crushing the Texas rebellion.
  6. burmafrd Banned

    May 30, 2008
    Las Cruces, NM
    Santa Anna is rather notorious for being about as bad a general as you ever got in a major leadership position. So you would either have a fight among the other generals to be top dog. or you got a good competent one who would have crushed Houston.
  7. Dave Howery laughs at your pain

    Jun 21, 2004
    Cheyenne WY
    usually, but his plan for the final assault on the Alamo was pretty good.... he used the more elite of his forces (rather than the raw recruits), he put a lot of pressure on every wall (basically overwhelming the handful of defenders), and relied on surprise rather than a heavy artillery barrage...

    ...and it nearly all worked. If one of his men hadn't gotten antsy and started screaming on the march, his men might have gotten into musket range before being seen. As it was, the Texans were alerted, and managed to get some cannons into action, and inflicted a lot of casualties before the Mexicans gained the walls; once they did, the Texans died fast. The assault was carried out by 1800 men, and they incurred between 400-600 casualties in the process of killing 200 texans. Rather a high price, but Santa Anna could afford the losses.

    The bigger question is if the assault was worth it. SA wanted an out and out military victory over the Yanks, and got one. He could have settled for starving them out, or waiting a couple of days until his heavier cannons arrived and then battered the walls down. He went for the glitzy assault on the walls instead; he got his victory, but also gave a rallying cry to the other Texans...
  8. Cythia Well-Known Member

    Feb 18, 2008
    If Santa Ana dies at the Alamo? No Chiclets, Black Jack or Adam's Clove Gum.

  9. Dathi THorfinnsson Daði Þorfinnsson

    Apr 13, 2007
    Syracuse, Haudenosaunee, Vinland
    ???? I don't understand
  10. Dave Howery laughs at your pain

    Jun 21, 2004
    Cheyenne WY
    there's an urban legend that SA invented chewing gum when he was in the US. Actually, there are a lot of urban legends about him... that he married the wrong sister (he meant to propose to one sister, but stammered so badly when asking the father's permission that he was misunderstood), that cannibals were once going to eat him but let him go for some reason, several others...
  11. TonyVee New Member

    Aug 21, 2008
    Bakersfield CA
    Sorry for the late reply, just recently moved from Everett WA to Bakersfield CA and am just now getting my computer unpacked.

    Here is the time line that I have so far. I started it at the Convention of 1833, because it it within 2 years you have the Texas Revolution. Most of the dates are as accurate with "Real" history of the mater, with the changes made at key dates.

    The Texan Time Line

    04/01/1833: The Convention of 1833, with 56 political delegates, convenes. It appointed a commission to draft a constitution for a new state of Texas and chose Stephen F. Austin to represent Texas before the federal government.
    11/21/1833: At Austin's urging, the Mexican Congress repeals the ban on foreign settlement in Texas.
    01/1834: Stephen F. Austin arrested in Saltillo on suspicion of treason. No charges were ever formally filed against him.
    03/1834: Texas was granted more representation in the provincial government. Trial by jury was introduced, and English was authorized as a second language.
    01/1835: Stephen F. Austin published his Exposition to the Public Regarding the Affairs of Texas. In this document he explained that Texas wanted to be a separate state, not an independent nation
    05/25/1835: Fearing that Santa Anna would march against Coahuila after subduing the rebels in Zacateca, federalist governor Agustin Viezca disbanded the state legislature in Monclova. Viezca traveled towards Texas, intending to set up a new government in the more remote San Antonio. He was arrested en route.
    06/20/1835: In the second of the Anahuac Disturbances, William Barret Travis led a militia to free colonists who had been arrested in a customs dispute. The Mexican troops surrendered and were expelled from the province.
    07/1835: Austin was freed from prison as part of a general amnesty.
    07/1835: The political chief of the Nacogdoches region told the militias to take arms against the Mexican troops.
    07/1835: "Texas Committees" in the United States organized to send money and volunteers to Texas.
    07/1835: When Austin returned to Texas after having been imprisoned in Mexico City. Upon his return, Austin helped organize a council to govern the group.
    09/01/1835: Correo-San Felipe affair. Texas armed schooner San Felipe exchanges fire with and captures Mexican Navy armed schooner Correo de Majica with help of small steamer Laura. Arguably, these are the first shots in the conflict.
    09/08/1835: Austin reverses himself and calls for war with Mexico to secure the freedom of Texas.
    09/20/1835: General Martin Perfecto de Cós, lands at Copano with an advance force of 300 troops and marches toward Goliad.
    09/29/1835: Mexican Lieutenant Francisco Castañeda and 100 dragoons arrive near Gonzales to force the settlers to return the cannon they had been given in 1831.
    10/02/1835: Cos occupies Goliad. After receiving 450 reinforcement, cos departs for San Antonio, leaving a residual force of about 30 men in Goliad.
    10/02/1835: The Battle of Gonzales officially begins the Texas Revolution. The Texan settlers retained their cannon; Castañeda and his men retreated.
    10/09/1835: After the Battle of Goliad, Texans occupy the presidio at Goliad.
    10/11/1835: Austin is elected commander of the Texan volunteers. The army begins marching towards San Antonio.
    10/17/1835: At a consultation of the Provisional Government of Texas, Daniel Parker proposed a resolution to establish the Texas Rangers, totaling some 60 men distributed among three companies.
    10/17/1835: Formation of the Texas Rangers
    10/27/1835: Austin sends James Bowie and 90 men to scout for a base of operations from which to launch a siege. Despite orders to return that day, Bowie and his men camp overnight on the grounds of Mission Nuestra Señora de la Purísima Concepción de Acuña.
    10/28/1835: 400 Mexican troops attack Bowie and his men. The Battle of Concepcion ended with a Mexican retreat.
    11/01/1835: The Consultation meets in San Felipe de Austin to form a new government. The group does not declare independence, and affirms their intention of restoring the Constitution of 1824.
    11/01/1835: The Texans begin the Siege of Bexar.
    11/03/1835: Texans capture Fort Lipantitlan.
    11/03/1835: The Consultation names Sam Houston commander-in-chief of a regular Texas Army, with no authority over Austin's volunteers.
    11/15/1835: José Antonio Mexía attacks Tampico. When expected help does not arrive from federalists in Matamoros, he retreats to Texas.
    11/16/1835: Haley's Comet reaches perihelion, the Earth passes through a glowing mist left behind by the comet. Throughout the first half of 1836 many people across the world fall ill but get well in 3 to 5 days
    11/24/1835: Texas lawmakers instituted The Rangers
    11/26/1835: Bowie leads Texans in the Grass Fight.
    11/28/1835: Robert McAlpin Williamson was chosen to be the first Major of the Texas Rangers. Within two years the Rangers would comprise more than 300 men.
    11/28/1835: Santa Anna leaves Mexico City with a 6,000-strong Mexican Army, marching northward to take back Texas from the rebels.
    11/30/1835: Satirist and writer Samuel Langhorne Clemens (aka Mark Twain) is born.
    12/05/1835: Under Ben Milam, Texans launch an assault on San Antonio.
    12/10/1835: General Cos surrenders over 1,000 Mexican troops and the Alamo to Texan forces at San Antonio. Cos and his men are paroled to Mexico under a promise to not fight against the Texans again.
    12/15/1835: Santa Anna rescinds the Mexican Constitution of 1824. As the national congress attempted to centralize the nation, a civil war ensued. Saltillo declared that Monclova had been the capitol illegally and had appointed a governor of their own.
    12/30/1835: Santa Anna receives declaration from Mexican Congress that all foreigners taken in arms against the government should be treated as pirates and shot.
    01/1835: Occultists in Europe and Native American Medicine Men find their spells and rituals actually working, magic is back in the world.
    01/03/1835: James Grant and Frank Johnson are ordered to attack Matamoros. They strip the Alamo of its supplies.
    01/06/1835: Santa Anna arrives at Saltillo.
    01/14/1835: J.C. Neill, commander at the Alamo, pleads for supplies.
    01/14/1835: Sam Houston arrives at Goliad.
    01/19/1835: James Bowie and James Bonham arrive at the Alamo with thirty men.
    02/01/1835: Elections are held in settlements across Texas for an independence convention.
    02/03/1835: William Travis arrives at the Alamo.
    02/08/1835: David Crockett arrives at the Alamo.
    02/11/1835: Alamo commander J.C. Neill leaves the Alamo due to a family illness. He appoints Travis commander.
    02/13/1835: Santa Anna and his army reach the city of Guerrero.
    02/13/1835: Travis and Bowie agree upon joint command of the Alamo's forces.
    02/16/1835: Santa Anna crosses the Rio Grande.
    02/17/1835: Travis sends out letters pleading for men and supplies.
    02/21/1835: Santa Anna arrives at the Medina River.
    02/22/1835: In San Antonio, Texans celebrate George Washington's birthday with a party at Domingo Bustillo's house on Soledad Street.
    02/23/1835: Santa Anna enters San Antonio. The Alamo comes under artillery fire from Mexican troops.
    02/24/1835: Bowie becomes ill.
    02/24/1835: Travis writes his famous "To the People of Texas & all Americans in the world" letter.
    02/25/1835: Fannin, commander of troops at Goliad, receives Travis' plea for aid.
    02/26/1835: James Fannin attempts his relief march to the Alamo but is turned back.
    02/27/1835: Mexican General José de Urrea attacks and defeats a small band of Texans at the Battle of San Patricio.
    03/01/1835: The Convention of 1836 of elected delegates convenes at Washington-on-the-Brazos.
    03/01/1835: Thirty-two to sixty men from Gonzales of the "Gonzales Company of Mounted Volunteers" enter the Alamo at 1:00 A.M.
    03/02/1835: Texans are defeated at the Battle of Agua Dulce.
    03/02/1835: Texas Declaration of Independence is signed and the Republic of Texas is declared. The delegates elect David G. Burnet interim president.
    03/03/1835: James B. Bonham arrives back at the Alamo telling Travis that Fannin was not coming.
    03/04/1835: Sam Houston is appointed commander of Texas forces.
    03/04/1835: Santa Anna holds a council of war with generals Joaquín Ramírez y Sesma, Martín Perfecto de Cos, Manuel F. Castrillón and Colonels Juan Almonte, Agustín Amat, Francisco Duque and Manuel Romero to plan the final assault.
    03/05/1835: Mexican artillery stops shelling the Alamo.
    03/06/1835: While Santa Anna confers with his Second-in-Command (and brother-in-law) Brigadier General Martín Perfecto de Cos, and as the bugler played 'El Deguello'--the cutthroat song: ‘No Quarter'...Santa Anna is felled by a 600 yard rifle shot. Legend holds that Tennessee rifleman David Crocket made the shot. Never the less, the final assault began
    03/06/1835: Battle of the Alamo: The defenders fight valiantly, however the Alamo falls when Brigadier General Martín Perfecto de Cos offers terms. Crocket escaped in time to join Houston at San Jacinto
    03/08/1835: Mexican General Gaona arrives with his artillery at the Alamo.
    03/10/1835: Mexican General Andrade arrives at the Alamo.
    03/11/1835: Houston begins his retreat from Gonzales precipitating the Runaway Scrape.
    03/12/1835: Battle of Refugio begins: Texan troops commanded by Lt. Col. William Ward and Amos King are attacked by General Urrea. After several hours of fighting, the Texans retreat. King's troops are captured by the Mexicans.
    03/16/1835: David G. Burnet becomes interim President of the Republic
    03/19/1835: Battle of Coleto: General Urrea defeats Colonel James Fannin near Goliad. Fannin surrenders.
    03/21/1835: Battle of Copano.
    03/27/1835: Goliad Massacre: James Fannin and nearly 400 Texans are executed by order of Mexican Government.
    03/27/1835: Houston and his army camp near San Felipe de Austin.
    03/28/1835: Houston orders Wiley Martin and Mosley Baker to guard his retreat thus delaying Cos' crossing the Brazos River.
    04/07/1835: Cos' army reaches San Felipe and is pinned down by Baker's men.
    04/08/1835: Cos' joins Ramirez y Sesma at Beason's Crossing.
    04/12/1835: Cos crosses Fort Bend on the Brazos River.
    04/12/1835: David G. Burnet and his cabinet barely escape the arriving Mexican army. Colonel Almonte decides not to shoot the fleeing party.
    04/12/1835: Houston uses the boat Yellow Stone to cross the Brazos River.
    04/18/1835: Houston and his army arrive outside of Harrisburg.
    04/20/1835: A cavalry attack lead by Sidney Sherman engages the Mexican army.
    04/20/1835: Houston moves his army to Buffalo Bayou
    04/20/1835: J.C. Neill is wounded and replaced by G.W. Hockley.
    04/20/1835: Texan and Mexican patrols clash at Morgan's Point.
    04/21/1835: Battle of San Jacinto: Texan army under Sam Houston overwhelmingly defeats Mexican force under Cos', securing Texas independence. Cos' captured.
    04/23/1835: News of Cos' defeat and capture reaches Cos' second-in-command, General Vicente Filiosa.
    04/25/1835: All Mexican troops in Texas (2,573 men) assemble at Elizabeth Powell's Tavern near Old Fort, including General José de Urrea's troops, where in a council of war headed by Filiosa, they agree to withdraw south of the Colorado River.
    04/28/1835: Retreating Mexican army crosses the Colorado River at the Atascosito Crossing near present-date Columbus, Texas. Because of heavy rains and dwindling food and supplies, the Mexicans continue to withdraw south.
    05/10/1835: Mexican army reaches the Atascosita Road at Victoria.
    05/14/1835: Treaties of Velasco signed by Republic of Texas officials and General Cos' ending the Texas Revolution.
    05/17/1835: Mexican army arrives in Goliad.
    05/28/1835: Lead elements of Mexican army arrive in San Patrico.
    05/31/1835: Mexican army arrives on the west bank of the Nueces River.
    06/05/1835: Mexican army camps at Rancho Chiltipiquin. Extreme heat from the summer season forces the army to further move on.
    06/15/1835: Filiosa, leading the defeated and demoralized Mexican army, crosses the Rio Grande River back into Mexico and arrives at Matamoros, Tamaulipas.
    10/22/1835: Sam Houston becomes President of the Republic.
    06/1838: Houston first administration was highlighted by the Cordova Rebellion named after one of the participants. Evidence existed that a widespread conspiracy of Cherokee Indians and Hispanics had united to rebel against the new Republic of Texas, and rejoin Mexico. Houston refused to believe that his friends the Cherokee were involved, and refused to order them arrested. The Cordova Rebellion was highlighted by Houston’s ability to squash it without bloodshed or widespread unrest. Thus, when he left office, the Republic was at peace with Native Americans. That did not last.
    12/01/1838: Mirabeau B. Lamar becomes President of the Republic.
    10/1839: The Capital of the Republic is moved from Houston to Austin.
    12/1839: Lamar's first actions as president were against the Indian tribes, and in 1839 his troops drove the Cherokee tribes from Texas. The bloody battle resulted in the death of Houston's friend Chief Bowles, leaving Houston very angry at Lamar. A similar campaign was fought against the Comanche, but unlike the Cherokee, the Comanche medicine men were able to use magic’s that stalled the Texas militia and the Comanche’s could not be forced from the area. Lamar's view towards Native Americans as a whole became increasingly strenuous against tribes, believing that it was necessary to cause their “total extinction.”
    03/19/1840: Council House Fight - a conflict between Republic of Texas officials and a Comanche peace delegation, which took place in San Antonio, Texas. The meeting was conceived as taking place under a negotiated truce with the purpose of (on the Comanche side) obtaining recognition of the boundaries of the Comancheria, and on the Texas side, the release of Texan and Mexican hostages who had been captured by the Comanche in recent years. The event ended in the death of 30 Texans by Native American shaman magic as they defended themselves against hostile whites. This incident hardened Comanche hostility to Texans for some time.
    06/1841: 321 men under Hugh McLeod and George Thomas Howard at the behest of President Mirabeau B. Lamar, who tired of waiting for approval from the Texas congress, took $89,000 for the national treasury and began an invasion of Santa Fe. After confusing the Wichita River for the Red River they arrived on October 5 near present day Tucumcari, New Mexico, were captured without firing a shot and were marched to prison at the San Carlos Fortress in Perote, Veracruz before ultimately being released in June 1842. The disgrace was to lead to the return of Sam Houston.
    12/13/1841: Because of Mirabeau Lamar's mishandling of the Native Americans, the bungled invasion of Santa Fe, not to mention the looting of the national treasury by Lamar to fund the Santa Fe expedition. Sam Houston becomes President of the Republic, with David Crocket as his Vice President.
    02/24/1842: President Houston reconciled and offers restitution as well as honoring the treaties to the Cherokee’s and Comanche. While distrustful at first, the both tribes agree. This move cements a lasting relationship between the Comanche’s and the Cherokees with the fledgling Republic, and with in three years sets up the Comanche’s and the Cherokees to petition the Texas Republic to become member states
    03/05/1842: A Mexican force of over 500 men under Rafael Vasquez invaded Texas for the first time since the revolution. When the Vasquez's men reach San Antonio they are beaten back by a combination of armed Texans and Native American Magic. Of the 500 troops that came with Vasquez, only 90 made it back, Vasquez was not among those that made it back, he was killed by an enchanted Cherokee arrow
    09/11/1842: 1400 Mexican troops under Adrian Woll attack San Antonio again. Only this time Adran Woll is captured, with his capture they 300 remaining troop surrender. Woll and his remaining troops are sent back to Mexico with a warning that the Republic of Texas will not stand for another such invasion of their sovereign territory
    09/18/1842: 36 Texans are surrounded and killed by the Mexican Army in the Dawson Massacre.
    09/1842: Sam Houston authorized Alexander Somervell to lead a retaliatory raid into Mexico. The resulting Somervell Expedition took and held the border towns of Laredo and Guerreo for 3 months. No civilian were hurt, but the soldiers who participated in the Dawson Massacre are hung. The message was clear, Don't Mess with Texas.
    05/27/1843: The Texan's Snively Expedition reached the Santa Fe Trail, expecting to capture Mexican troops and wagons crossing territory claimed by Texas. The campaign stalled, however, when American troops intervened and allowed the Mexican to withdraw across the boarder.
    08/15/1844: President Houston calls out the militia to put down the Regulator-Moderator War.
    09/16/1844: All Texas prisoners are released by Mexico on order from General de Cos'.
    12/09/1844: Anson Jones takes the oath of office as President of the Republic of Texas. Sam Houston become Secretary of State, David Crocket becomes Senator in the Texas Legislature.
    02/01/1845: Baylor University is founded.
    02/28/1845: The United States Congress passed a bill that would authorize the United States to annex the Republic of Texas.
    03/01/1845: U.S. President Polk signed the authorization bill.
    06/1845: Jones's emissary to Mexico returned with a treaty recognizing the republic's independence. He put the question before the people — accept the offer of annexation from the United States, or sign the independence treaty from Mexico and remain an independent state
    07/04/1845: Mirabeau B. Lamar with help from the US government tries to stage a coup and take over the Texas Republic with the assignation of President Jones and Secretary of State Houston. The coup is foiled not only by David Crocket but delegations of Comanche and Cherokee's who were petitioning the Texas Legislature for admittance to the Texas Republic as states as they were having issues with the Mexicans as well. Lamar is never brought to trial, having been lynched by an angry mob of citizens who helped protect President Jones and Secretary Houston
    10/13/1845: A majority of voters in the Republic reject joining the United States. Most cite the intervention of American troops during the Snively Expedition as well as the involvement of US troops in the aborted, what became known as the "Lamar" coup.
    12/12/1845: President Jones signs the "Austin Accords" with President de Cos' of Mexico. Mexico recognizes Texas' independence and sovereignty and the borders established are the same as those of the Treaty of Velasco
    01/10/1845: The Texas Rangers are given broad judicial powers, including acting as adjudicators in disputes. A roll that causes problem for some slave owners, because a number of Rangers rule that slavery where the victim doesn't have a choice in the matter is wrong.
    07/18/1845: Cherokee and Comanche lands become states within the Texas Republic
    08/02/1845: In an effort to pay off debts to the US, Jones with the Texas State Legislature cede Texan lands which make up parts of Louisiana, Oklahoma, Colorado and Nebraska to the US government.
    1848: Due to increasing turmoil in the Mexico and problems with Indians in the Novo Mexico. Mexico cedes all lands from California to the Republic of Texas border to Texas.
    12/04/1851: David Crockett becomes the 5th President of the Republic of Texas
    04/03/1852: In a move that angers many Eastern Texan cotton growers, President Crocket proposes a law to the Texas Legislature to end slavery in the Republic, in his speech, he states that it is hypocritical to fight a war for the cause of freedom and then turn around and deny it to others
    08/03/1852: The Texas Legislature narrowly passes the "Texas Emancipation Act". The act only passes because a clause granting restitution to the slaves is removed. The Texas Rangers are charged with seeing that the Emancipation proclamation is made know to all.
    12/14/1855: William B. Travis Jr. son of Alamo hero William Travis is elected President of the Republic of Texas
    November 6, 1860: Abraham Lincoln, who had declared "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free..." is elected president, the first Republican, receiving 180 of 303 possible electoral votes and 40 percent of the popular vote.
    12/20/1860: South Carolina secedes from the Union. Followed within two months by Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and Louisiana.
    01/1861: The in an effort to keep the Republic of Texas from interfering in the impending Civil War, the US cedes back land originally ceded to them by Texas and eastern Louisiana.
    02/01/1861: The Texas Legislature declares neutrality and will not involve itself officially in the struggle between the Confederate States of America and the United States of America.
    02/9/1861: The Confederate States of America is formed with Jefferson Davis, a West Point graduate and former U.S. Army officer, as president.
    03/4/1861: Abraham Lincoln is sworn in as 16th President of the United States of America.
    04/12/1861: At 4:30 a.m. Confederates under Gen. Pierre Beauregard open fire with 50 cannons upon Fort Sumter in Charleston, South Carolina. The US War Between the States begins.
    04/14/1861: Fort Sumter is capture,
    04/15/1861: President Lincoln issues a Proclamation calling for 75,000 militiamen, and summoning a special session of Congress for July 4. Robert E. Lee, son of a Revolutionary War hero, and a 25 year distinguished veteran of the United States Army and former Superintendent of West Point, is offered command of the Union Army. Lee declines.
    04/17/1861: Virginia secedes from the Union, followed within five weeks by Arkansas, Tennessee, and North Carolina, thus forming a ten state Confederacy with a population of 9 million, including nearly 4 million slaves. The Union will soon have 21 states and a population of over 20 million.
    04/19/1861: President Lincoln issues a Proclamation of Blockade against Southern ports. For the duration of the war the blockade limits the ability of the rural South to stay well supplied in its war against the industrialized North.
    05/19/1861: US Naval vessels attempt to stop 2 Texan Freighters heading into port at Galveston, Texas privateer Miguel Delarosa of the Yellow Rose and Texas Naval ships, Independence and Austin destroy the American Frigates.
    06/25/1891: President Travis issues a warning to the American President Lincoln that Texan shipping is neutral.
  12. TonyVee New Member

    Aug 21, 2008
    Bakersfield CA
    That is the time line that I am working with, the part that is really tweaking things is the addition of magic, and the effect that is going to have on the North American Continent.

    I did realize right off of the bat, the addition of magic was going to create a certain level of parity between the Native American's and US Army.
  13. mattw101 Prince Palatine


    Should this not be in ASB?
  14. Keith Robertsson Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2008
    San Francisco, California
    While the CSA could not get European help, I can see the Republic of Texas' requests for aid being approved. Not much, just RN and French Navy frigates from their respective Carribean Squadrons making friendly port calls in Galveston. Or allowing Texan merchants ship to sail under British or French colors.
  15. Herr Frage Jesus Christ Is In Heaven

    Sep 19, 2007
    Behind a black gate and to the left of a grove
    Will Maximilian happen in this TL? At the very least I hope the Texans would prevent him from being executed as per OTL.

    Agreed that the addition of magic moves this TL into the ASB category.
  16. Melior Authority of Melioran Empire

    Jul 21, 2007
    Imperium Bohemorum
    this seems as highly ASB'sh POD:
    as in [SIZE=+2]Arms of the Mexican Infantry 1835-1836[/SIZE]
  17. Dave Howery laughs at your pain

    Jun 21, 2004
    Cheyenne WY
    well, there's a difference between a musket and a rifle (and the shot that takes down SA is specifically said to be a rifle). A handful of the Alamo defenders did have the classic Pennsylvania long rifles, although most of them had the same muskets as the Mexicans (some didn't even have those, having only shotguns or pistols). Muskets were notoriously short ranged (50 yards was about the maximum for accurate shooting), but could be loaded very quickly and could hold a bayonet. The rifles were better, but still only really accurate out to 100 yards. A few legendary marksmen like Crockett and Boone could supposedly hit targets out to 200 yards. But yes, 600 yards is pretty much out of the question (I'm not even sure the bullet would carry that far). I'm not even sure the cannons could reach that far and still kill anyone. 200 yards would be a better distance for that legendary shot....
  18. TonyVee New Member

    Aug 21, 2008
    Bakersfield CA
    Powder Tech, Rifles & Marksman

    By the time of the Alamo, there were already a great deal of improvements in Rifle technology especially powder. percussion caps were already in use, and black powder had more or less hit its plateau technology wise. It would be until 1884 when Paul Vieille invented a smokeless gunpowder called Poudre B, made from gelatinized guncotton mixed with ether and alcohol. It was passed through rollers to form thin sheets, which were cut into flakes of the desired size. The resulting propellant, today known as pyrocellulose, contains somewhat less nitrogen than guncotton and is less volatile. A particularly good feature of the propellant is that it will not detonate unless it is compressed, making it very safe to handle under normal conditions.

    Is a 600 yard shot possible with a black powder rifle, theoretically, yes. Marksman like Crocket, Boone and others, wasn't about them being so much great marksman, as the fact that their ability to shoot so well came to being because it was a skill that allowed them to eat without wasting powder and shot.