What if, no Dungeons and Dragons?
- Thread starter Kerney
- Start date
Yes, and the movie series came out in the early 00's, driven in a very large way by the success of DnD. Without it, it's unlikely to be tried. Certainly there could be an animated series, but nothing like the huge blockbuster we saw IOTL.
Sort of objection! (It's an issue that has been discussed before and extensively. By others.)
Dungeons and Dragons is at the heart of it more Howard Low Fantasy thanTolkien High Fantasy, and quite possibly more
Anderson whatever-level-fantasy-he-wrote Fantasy than either.
Looking at Appendix N there appears to be far more Low Fantasy and non-Tolkienesque High Fantasy than Tolkienesque.
LINK
Gary Gygax said:
marathag
Banned
"Aye," said Legolam, "the river is under a spell, for it is named after the fair elf-maid Nesselrode who had the hots for Menthol, God of After-Dinner Drinks. But the evil Oxydol, Goddess of Quick Tricks and Small Slams, appeared to her in the shape of a five-iron and told her that Menthol was two-timing with the Princess Phisohex, daughter of King Sano. At this Nesselrode became wroth and swore a great oath to kick Phisohex in the gut and get her mother, Cinerama, Goddess of Short-Term Loans, to turn Menthol into an erector set. But Menthol got wind of the plot and came to Nesselrode in the guise of a refrigerator, turned her into a river, and went west to sell encyclopedias. Even now, in the spring, the river softly cries, 'Menthol, Menthol, you are one wazoo. One day I'm the elf next door and then poof I'm a river. You stink.' And the wind answers, 'Phooey.'"
"A sad story," said Frito. "Is it true?"
"No," said Legolam.
and
Then just over their heads they saw a passing flash of color. There in the sky they saw a giant eagle, full-feathered and painted shocking pink. On its side were the words DEUS EX MACHINA AIRLINES in metallic gold.
marathag
Banned
As the day of the party drew nearer, carts drawn by sturdy plow-goats rolled through the bullrush gates of Boggietown, laden with boxes and crates, each bearing the X-rune of Goodgulf the Wizard and various elvish brand names.
The crates were unloaded and opened at Dildo's door, and the mewling boggies wagged their vestigial tails with wonder at the marvelous contents.
There were clusters of tubes mounted on tripods to shoot rather outsized roman candles; fat, finned skyrockets, with odd little buttons at the front end, weighing hundreds of pounds; a revolving cylinder of tubes with a crank to turn them; and large "cherry bombs" that looked to the children more like little green pineapples with a ring inserted at the top. Each crate was labeled with an olive-drab elf-rune signifying that these toys had been made in the elf-shops of a fairy whose name was something very much like "Amy Surplus."
Dildo watched the unpacking with a broad grin and sent the young ones scampering with a vicious swipe of a well-honed toenail. "G'wan, beat it, scram!" he called merrily after them as they disappeared. He then laughed and turned back to his boggie-hole, to talk to his guest within.
"This'll be one fireworks display they won't forget," cackled the ageing boggie to Goodgulf, who was puffing his cigar rather uncomfortably in a chair of tasteless elvish-modern. The floor around it was littered with four-letter Scrabble arrangements.
"I am afraid that you must alter your plans for them," said the Wizard, unsnaggling a clot of tangled hair in his long, dirtygray beard. "You cannot use extermination as a method for settling your petty grudges with the townspeople."
The crates were unloaded and opened at Dildo's door, and the mewling boggies wagged their vestigial tails with wonder at the marvelous contents.
There were clusters of tubes mounted on tripods to shoot rather outsized roman candles; fat, finned skyrockets, with odd little buttons at the front end, weighing hundreds of pounds; a revolving cylinder of tubes with a crank to turn them; and large "cherry bombs" that looked to the children more like little green pineapples with a ring inserted at the top. Each crate was labeled with an olive-drab elf-rune signifying that these toys had been made in the elf-shops of a fairy whose name was something very much like "Amy Surplus."
Dildo watched the unpacking with a broad grin and sent the young ones scampering with a vicious swipe of a well-honed toenail. "G'wan, beat it, scram!" he called merrily after them as they disappeared. He then laughed and turned back to his boggie-hole, to talk to his guest within.
"This'll be one fireworks display they won't forget," cackled the ageing boggie to Goodgulf, who was puffing his cigar rather uncomfortably in a chair of tasteless elvish-modern. The floor around it was littered with four-letter Scrabble arrangements.
"I am afraid that you must alter your plans for them," said the Wizard, unsnaggling a clot of tangled hair in his long, dirtygray beard. "You cannot use extermination as a method for settling your petty grudges with the townspeople."
Captain America 1990 also tanked. Doesn't mean there was no market for superhero movies
Fair, but I'm more interested with replacing the Tolkien trappings with Howard ones. So for instance, the races are all humans of alternating mythic archetypes and grotesque caricatures (except for reptile men, I suppose) instead of elves/dwarves/halflings, and you replace the magic system with something either arbitrary and shamanistic, or don't give it to players at all unless they find artifacts and mystic weapons. Then again, Tolkien didn't have mages shouting lightning bolt either, that's the Vancian magic system.
That's maybe pushing things. The genre of Fantasy was undergoing a slight resurgence in the late 90's, like it had in the sixties and seventies. Obviously in this second wave DnD played some part, as did Tolkiens works, but then DnD based a lot on Tolkien during the seventies boom in the first place. So at best it's slightly cyclical, but I wouldn't place too much cultural importance on DnD. It's at best a symptom of larger changes.
This is actually a very fascinating question. I think that, as long as the fantasy boom kept on, someone would have eventually connected the dots and jumped from adding fantasy rules to miniatures gaming, to going down a scale-wise towards individual characters. But if that doesn't happen (right away) obviously it'd be a big difference. Things like levels, experience points and the sort all arose from the previously mentioned mixture. If that doesn't happen, maybe adventure games (developed around the same time) will take their place on computers? And choose-your-own-adventure-books fill the real-world niche? In any case the social element would largely be gone. Maybe years down the line there wouldn't be MMORPGs like we know now, or maybe later and rather differently.
Yes! Yes! I'm soooooo happy to see someone else who appreciates the classics!
Do you occasionally find yourself thinking, "Jerk looks like a fork!" or "Pity stayed his hand." ??? I do...
You and marathag are my heros...
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This ring, only, was made by the Elves
(Who'd hock their own mother to get at it themselves)
Ruler of creeper and mortal and scallop,
This one's a sleeper that packs might a wallop
If broken or busted it cannot be remade
If found, send to Sorehead
(The postage is pre-paid)
Actually, only D&D is gone, Chainmail and Blackmoor haven't been touched near as I can tell.
Heavy Metal, network television and modernity would still exist so that bunch of self righteous hypocrites would still find plenty to complain about.
nbcman
Donor
TSR could push the Metamorphosis Alpha (precursor to Gamma World) Sci-Fi RPG or uses the Empire of the Petal Throne gaming system instead of the D&D for a sword and sorcery RPG. Both of those titles were released by TSR within a year or two of D&D.