What if Medieval AIDS?

Asking a question out of ignorance here. But it just occurred to me that the way HIV/AIDS works looks a lot like a disease that has evolved or partially evolved to adapt to its human hosts. The long latency period when the carrier can still be contagious in particular.

Has there every been any thought that HIV might have originally been a deadlier disease with more immediate effects that has since been 'toned down'?

In fact, given some of the suggestions here that the Black Death and the HIV virus are similar enough to confer some cross-immunity, what about a TL where HIV is what happens once the Black Death happens--the Black Death virus evolves in an HIV-like direction to avoid killing its hosts before it can be transmitted.

Unfortunately, given the way these things work, in the Columbian Exchange the virus will probably manifest more like the Plague than like AIDS.
 
Asking a question out of ignorance here. But it just occurred to me that the way HIV/AIDS works looks a lot like a disease that has evolved or partially evolved to adapt to its human hosts. The long latency period when the carrier can still be contagious in particular.

Has there every been any thought that HIV might have originally been a deadlier disease with more immediate effects that has since been 'toned down'?

In fact, given some of the suggestions here that the Black Death and the HIV virus are similar enough to confer some cross-immunity, what about a TL where HIV is what happens once the Black Death happens--the Black Death virus evolves in an HIV-like direction to avoid killing its hosts before it can be transmitted.

Unfortunately, given the way these things work, in the Columbian Exchange the virus will probably manifest more like the Plague than like AIDS.

I don't think that the Black Death and the HIV virus are similar enough to confer some cross-immunity but rather something genetic in the immune system makes it "work" better at deadly diseases.
 
Would immunity from HIV spread? Due to nature of the virus it doesn't really give you an edge. People can be infected and pass their non-immune genes on before dying.

Unless immunity works in such way that immune + non-immune parents always produce immune children. With 2,3+ children birthrate this could work but, as I said, it would require immunity gene to always cancell non-immune one.

The gene that was mentioned is the CCR5 delta 32 mutation. If you're lucky enough to be homozygous for the trait (ie you inherited two copies of the gene, one from each parent) you are practically immune to HIV/AIDS. If you've got just one copy, you still have greatly increased resistance to the disease.

What would happen with a virulent version of AIDS is that most people who are nullizygous (that is, not having a copy of that gene) would die out pretty quickly, leaving only the homozygous and heterozygous individuals. Those would then mate amongst one another, and within a couple generations just about everyone would have at least one copy of CCR5 delta 32.
 
Asking a question out of ignorance here. But it just occurred to me that the way HIV/AIDS works looks a lot like a disease that has evolved or partially evolved to adapt to its human hosts. The long latency period when the carrier can still be contagious in particular.

Has there every been any thought that HIV might have originally been a deadlier disease with more immediate effects that has since been 'toned down'?

In fact, given some of the suggestions here that the Black Death and the HIV virus are similar enough to confer some cross-immunity, what about a TL where HIV is what happens once the Black Death happens--the Black Death virus evolves in an HIV-like direction to avoid killing its hosts before it can be transmitted.

Unfortunately, given the way these things work, in the Columbian Exchange the virus will probably manifest more like the Plague than like AIDS.

Yes, HIV was probably much deadlier at one point. But it's a blood-borne disease: The fact it doesn't get around without a functioning human host means any super-deadly kill-you-in-a-day retroviruses will disappear quickly.
I might point out that HIV is an RNA-based retrovirus, while Bubonic Plague is a bacterial infection caused by Y. Pestis (with DNA as it's genetic information). Y. Pestis does oscillate in virulence, being mild at the beginning and very end of an outbreak, and being incredibly potent in the middle. What it has going for it is good; No need for change. Plus there are already Yersinia bacteria within us. Just none harmful enough to kill us.
And I might be the stick in the mud, but I might point out that Bubonic Plague has reached the New World, it's just population density was such that The Plague never got a foothold: Conditions simply didn't favor it.
Other Enteric and Flea-based diseases did well in cities, but not The Plague.
 
I find that while not strictly speaking accurate, it helps to think of AIDS and bubonic plage as taking advantage of the same..."security hole" in our immune systems, while otherwise being very different from each other. The mutation patches the hole, probably at the cost of some other tradeoff, which is much less important in an epidemic.

It's well worth noting that HIV/AIDS isn't that contagious if you're engaging in heterosexual, PIV sex. The odds are about 1 in 500, even without a condom (we're not talking astronomical odds here, though, so nobody run out to have unprotected sex with someone infected with HIV). Vaginas are usually well-lubricated, so there's less chance of tearing and therefore, viral transmission.

Yes...but. Not only does that make for bad cumulative odds in a sexually active relationship but: The odds are better than that for males, and twice as bad for females, who recieves infected bodily fluids. The odds are far worse, especially for females, if the encounter is violent. The odds are also worse if the participants have infections, sores or rifts on the genitals.

Would immunity from HIV spread? Due to nature of the virus it doesn't really give you an edge. People can be infected and pass their non-immune genes on before dying.

Unless immunity works in such way that immune + non-immune parents always produce immune children. With 2,3+ children birthrate this could work but, as I said, it would require immunity gene to always cancell non-immune one.

In addition to what Mipp said...an infected mother has about a 30 % chance of passing the infection on to the child during pregnancy and childbirth. Afterwards...well breastmilk carries HIV. So a child with non-immune parents are unlikly to live to sexual marturity.

Also, with an average incubation time of 8 years, infected parents are likly to die before the offspring is old enough to care for itself. Which is often fatal in a medieval setting. However, there is a chance many children would be taken in by extended family. AIDS being difficult to recognize as a disease works in the childs favor. In general, however, losing one or both parents at a very young age will seriously impair your chances of survival in a medieval setting.

What would happen with a virulent version of AIDS is that most people who are nullizygous (that is, not having a copy of that gene) would die out pretty quickly, leaving only the homozygous and heterozygous individuals. Those would then mate amongst one another, and within a couple generations just about everyone would have at least one copy of CCR5 delta 32.

I suspect herd immunity would kick in at some point here. But I have wondered about something: How big is the advantage of resistance in an environment with no antivirals or medical care? Does it allow you to resist infection, or will it just mean you end up in the top end of the 3-20 year latency period?
Asking a question out of ignorance here. But it just occurred to me that the way HIV/AIDS works looks a lot like a disease that has evolved or partially evolved to adapt to its human hosts. The long latency period when the carrier can still be contagious in particular.

Has there every been any thought that HIV might have originally been a deadlier disease with more immediate effects that has since been 'toned down'?

Its probably co-evolved with its original, simian hosts. Humans just lack the adaptions that would let us eliminate it during the long latency.
 
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Now over the centuries, the disease become less virulent. People develop genetic immunity...I have a nagging suspicion that if AIDS hit the the main population centers more than a 1000 years ago, it would be so mild now that few people would know about it. I would not rule out it being still unknown to the wider medical community due to its extreme mildness.
That's not how diseases work. Diseases evolve toward better transmission, not avirulence, although avirulence can sometimes leads to better transmission. HIV is already "perfect" in terms of transmission short of becoming airborne. There's no need for it to become less virulent.
 

ingemann

Banned
I don't think that the Black Death and the HIV virus are similar enough to confer some cross-immunity but rather something genetic in the immune system makes it "work" better at deadly diseases.

No it have to do with how HIV and the Black Plague virus enter the cells, other disease hit carrier of the gene harder, in fact it's believed that the Romans spread a plague to North Europe, which hit the carriers of the gene harder.
 
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