Would whites be in better position than OTL ?
Would Wrangel recognize independence of former Russian Empire lands?
Would Wrangel recognize independence of former Russian Empire lands?
what if in 1918 Wrangel became supreme leader of Russia instead Kolchak?
- Thread starter estonian man
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Denikin was commander-in-chief of the Volunteer Army of Southern Russia until 1920, while Wrangel was only Chief of Staff. You’d need to get rid of Denikin before this is a possibility.
In terms of the whites being in a better military situation, I don’t think this changes anything at all. Each white army was run separately from the others in practice, and Kolchak had no actual involvement in the operations of armies like Denikin’s or Yudenich’s. It was a purely symbolic arrangement in practice, and so who is the official crown-bearer isn’t going to change the course of the Civil War.
Wrangel also was a more reactionary-leaning man than Denikin or Kolchak, and held pretty much identical views to those men on the question of peripheral nationalist movements. They would be crushed and counter-revolutionary Russia was an indivisible entity which would not be separated. So not much change there.
In terms of the whites being in a better military situation, I don’t think this changes anything at all. Each white army was run separately from the others in practice, and Kolchak had no actual involvement in the operations of armies like Denikin’s or Yudenich’s. It was a purely symbolic arrangement in practice, and so who is the official crown-bearer isn’t going to change the course of the Civil War.
Wrangel also was a more reactionary-leaning man than Denikin or Kolchak, and held pretty much identical views to those men on the question of peripheral nationalist movements. They would be crushed and counter-revolutionary Russia was an indivisible entity which would not be separated. So not much change there.
Pretty much every White generals wanted re-annex lands what it was lost at Brest-Litovsk + chaos during revolution and civil war. Not idea whether other generals would had been more competent than Kolchak but I doubt that they still can win the war. They weren't at any point unified group so winning would be really hard.
If Wrangel replaced Denikin as head of Southern Army at the day of its formation (january 1919, so you're a bit too early), it affects little whether he or Kolchak is nominal head of White Movement. Both armies operated completely independently.
Denikin was not a bad military commander per se, but he failed when confronted with enormity of challenges he faced as leader, especially when concerned with issues beyond immediately military.
Wrangel on the other hand, was far more sophisticated man, more charismatic. For example, once when he captured large numbers of Boslheviks, he executed the officers but successfully convinced the low ranks to join him - Denikin would just have everyone shot. Wrangel was far better with civilian side of things, had better control over his troops who under Denikin frequently looted and organized pogroms. Wrangel would more often than not execute people only after trial, which made his rule more lawful than Denikin who was more akin to an arbitrary warlord.
He was just plain better leader and administrator than his predecessor, he just came too late, Denikin resigned because he saw war as already lost.
If you entirely skip the period of Denikin's mediocrity, and do so that early on, you give Whites very good chance to win.
Denikin was not a bad military commander per se, but he failed when confronted with enormity of challenges he faced as leader, especially when concerned with issues beyond immediately military.
Wrangel on the other hand, was far more sophisticated man, more charismatic. For example, once when he captured large numbers of Boslheviks, he executed the officers but successfully convinced the low ranks to join him - Denikin would just have everyone shot. Wrangel was far better with civilian side of things, had better control over his troops who under Denikin frequently looted and organized pogroms. Wrangel would more often than not execute people only after trial, which made his rule more lawful than Denikin who was more akin to an arbitrary warlord.
He was just plain better leader and administrator than his predecessor, he just came too late, Denikin resigned because he saw war as already lost.
If you entirely skip the period of Denikin's mediocrity, and do so that early on, you give Whites very good chance to win.
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Would Wrangel do anything differently in terms of maintaining at least a facade of democratic institutions? Kolchak's seizure of power helped alienate the Entente (mostly the French and Americans, rather) from the Arkhangelsk expedition (though low troop morale and a desire to 'bring the boys home' was already unsettling them anyway).
When your brothel do not bring in profit, it is pointless to move beds around. You need to change the workforce.
Or to put it directly instead of allegory: whoever you put in charge of the White Movement among IRL leadership, the result would be more or less the same.
Or to put it directly instead of allegory: whoever you put in charge of the White Movement among IRL leadership, the result would be more or less the same.
Wrangel may be more competent and not alienate Russians and Entente as much as Kolchak but at end Bolsheviks probably still win the war.