What if Britain lost World War I.

[Shroob12]

What would happen to Britain if Germany won WW1?

Essentially title. What would happen post-war to Britain if Germany won. For detail, let's say its a German victory in the 1918 Spring Offensive after the US decided not to join the war (No USW, no Zimmerman Telegram, etc.).

First, would Germany actually be able to take any gains from Britain or would they have to accept a status quo peace (only gaining territory from France and Belgium), such as would they actually be able to make Mittelafrika?

Second (and the main thing) what happens to Britain itself post-war? Obviously in Kaiserreich, Britain falls to Socialist Revolution in 1925 (thus allowing for Germany to seize colonies). In Turtledove's Southern Victory Series (Where the Central Powers win WW1 in 1917), Oswald Mosley takes power in the 1930s (peacefully, giving no chance for Germany to seize colonies). Other people have said Britain would merely shift to the right after economic trouble (but not to the point of Fascism) and would simply return to isolation (not participating in any alternate WW2 of France + Russia vs. Germany if there is one).

This is a question I've been really wondering on for the past few days so wanted to see your thoughts!

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

First, would Germany actually be able to take any gains from Britain or would they have to accept a status quo peace (only gaining territory from France and Belgium), such as would they actually be able to make Mittelafrika?

Britain would likely gain colonies from the Germans, as they are not very important to Germany and one of the main British goals was to remove all German colonies. Mittle Afrika is very unlikely, the Germans can consider themselves happy if they get the Belgian Congo.

Second (and the main thing) what happens to Britain itself post-war? Obviously in Kaiserreich, Britain falls to Socialist Revolution in 1925 (thus allowing for Germany to seize colonies). In Turtledove's Southern Victory Series (Where the Central Powers win WW1 in 1917), Oswald Mosley takes power in the 1930s (peacefully, giving no chance for Germany to seize colonies). Other people have said Britain would merely shift to the right after economic trouble (but not to the point of Fascism) and would simply return to isolation (not participating in any alternate WW2 of France + Russia vs. Germany if there is one).

I think isolationism and strong conservative movement is the most likely, Socialist Revolution is very unlikely seeing how powerful was the Labour party post-ww1 (better than before the war but nowhere near enough to get all of the electorate, let alone a revolution). Oswald Mosley would might be slightly more popular than IOTL but nowhere near enough to take over the nation.

 

[Lalli]

Germany can call itself lucky if it can get its old African colonies back and yet some French colonies in Africa and Belgian colonies. But outside of Africa Germany is not going to get anything.

Britain probably would face brief political chaos but I don't think that there will be revolution or fascist regime. Britain has not reason to be revanchist.

 

[Garrison]

Its possible for the Entente to lose, but the burden of that defeat will fall on the Belgians and the French. Germany just has no power to impose terms on the British and indeed if the Germans want a lasting peace and access to foreign markets they probably need to get out off Belgium or at the very least demilitarize it.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Germany can call itself lucky if it can get its old African colonies back and yet some French colonies in Africa and Belgian colonies. But outside of Africa Germany is not going to get anything.

You mean Britain?

 

[Comte de Geneve]

There would still be a negotiated peace, by 1918 a German victory as described would not enable a Diktat peace. The most the German's might get is a restoration of East Africa to be combined with the Congo to make Mittleafrika, and that's a stretch. Said victory would entail a French collapse and a BEF withdrawal, but GB is still militarily strong although economically weakened. Internally I believe the DLG liberals are discredited and a Labour victory is possible at the next General Election. If Labour fails then I think there is more chance of unrest but not revolution. Mosley will always be a non-starter.

 

[Nivek]

What would happen to Britain if Germany won WW1?

Essentially title. What would happen post-war to Britain if Germany won. For detail, let's say its a German victory in the 1918 Spring Offensive after the US decided not to join the war (No USW, no Zimmerman Telegram, etc.).

First, would Germany actually be able to take any gains from Britain or would they have to accept a status quo peace (only gaining territory from France and Belgium), such as would they actually be able to make Mittelafrika?

Second (and the main thing) what happens to Britain itself post-war? Obviously in Kaiserreich, Britain falls to Socialist Revolution in 1925 (thus allowing for Germany to seize colonies). In Turtledove's Southern Victory Series (Where the Central Powers win WW1 in 1917), Oswald Mosley takes power in the 1930s (peacefully, giving no chance for Germany to seize colonies). Other people have said Britain would merely shift to the right after economic trouble (but not to the point of Fascism) and would simply return to isolation (not participating in any alternate WW2 of France + Russia vs. Germany if there is one).

This is a question I've been really wondering on for the past few days so wanted to see your thoughts!

 

[Sekhmet_D]

For detail, let's say its a German victory in the 1918 Spring Offensive after the US decided not to join the war (No USW, no Zimmerman Telegram, etc.).

This is not a realistic POD. Make it a German victory no later than early 1916 and you're on.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

This is not a realistic POD. Make it a German victory no later than early 1916 and you're on.

At which point the British Government gets off fairly lightly with the British population. They'll be saying at every chance "It's France and Russia that were beaten not Britain. Our armies were still building up and not in a position to do more than save themselves by withdrawing to the coast to be evacuated."

 

[Catspoke]

If Germany wins in 1916 1917, Britain does ok, no colonial losses, her dominions pick up gains, Britain probably keeps southern Iraq to protect oil. All of Europe spared expense and destruction of a year and a half of war, and Soviet revolution is avoided, maybe influenza outbreak avoided, great depression mitigated. Those are possible positives, negatives Military spending may be higher if a still militarized Germany is a threat.

Still Britain leadership can say we gained colonially, defended Belgium, kept France independent. Should be no fringe governments coming in power. Ireland still breaks away.

 

[Taco Shark]

Germany can call itself lucky if it can get its old African colonies back and yet some French colonies in Africa and Belgian colonies. But outside of Africa Germany is not going to get anything.

Germany can say goodbye to South-West Africa (Jan Smuts was keen on taking it for South Africa) and East Africa (Britain needs Cape-to-Cairo and doesn't want a German U-boat base in the Indian Ocean)

 

[ReconGuy02]

Germany can say goodbye to South-West Africa (Jan Smuts was keen on taking it for South Africa) and East Africa (Britain needs Cape-to-Cairo and doesn't want a German U-boat base in the Indian Ocean)

Theoretically, Germany can trade vacating Belgium and maybe agreeing to fleet ratio in favor of Britain, for Congo.
But the rest is gone.
Britain needed East Africa for Cape to Cairo, South Africa long had eyes on SouthWest Africa, ans Kamerun & Togo were already occupied since 1915 by French and British troops.
Japan too the Pacific colonies, and there's no way Germany can force Japan to give it up.
There's 2 scenarios.
A) Germany gets Congo (10% probability) and loses pre-war colonies
B) Germany doesn't get anything, and loses pre-war colonies (90% probability)
That's it.

 

[Happy Nihilist]

What is the relationship between Britain and Germany going forward?

 

[Lalli]

What is the relationship between Britain and Germany going forward?

Probably become eventually pretty cordial. I don't see reason being eternally hostile.

 

[The Ranger]

No Nazis, at least no Nazis in power. Possibly Bolsheviks squashed if Germany helps the Whites. No WW2, so either no nukes, or delayed nukes, unless Japan still goes evil as in OTL.