What alternate history ideas you wish they were used more often?
- Thread starter Gar48
- Start date
Well, I suppose Samo's empire surviving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samo's_Empire could count, as it'd be isolated "diplomatically" from rest of Europe by virtue of being pagan and it'd decrease importance of marriages and dynastic politics (which are main point of focus of most timeline), in addition, it's survival would direct the focus towards alternate development of Slavic paganism, Avar influence lingering among Slavs (Avars were main foreign influence on Slavs up until their loss to Charlemagne, it'd be interesting to see lasting Slavic state mainly influenced by Avar model, not Frankish), of language and script as writing would be introduced/systematized earlier (depends on stance on origin of Glagolitic script - was it created by St. Cyril from scratch or was just systemization of existing writing system).
Pérez Jiménez stays in power or wins the Presidency in 1973, after he ran in that year, I've actually never seen a timeline that focuses on this, imagine the effects it could have in Latin America or even flip a few US Elections
Oh my, oh my. Where, exactly, do I start?
There are actually many, many ideas that I've entertained along these lines, but I'll gladly serve some up right now:
1.)Less harsh legislation in regards to Chinese immigration to the U.S.-Although avoiding this altogether might be genuinely difficult to accomplish plausibly, on the other hand, it wouldn't be that hard, at all, to make laws restricting Chinese + other Asian immigration to the U.S. at least somewhat less harsh. (Too many TLs that I've seen that even touch on this tend to assume to just copy the OTL situation.)
2.)If the Confederacy must survive for a time in one's TL.....why not make it a pariah(preferably at least a struggling, if not outright poor, one)?-Yeah, waaaaaayyyyyy too many TLs exist out there that not only have the C.S.A. surviving past the Civil War, but have it be rich, prosperous, and accepted as pretty much a "normal" country by the rest of the world.....despite the unlikelihood of any of those things being true in any given scenario. At least having the C.S.A. be a basket case, even if one whose problems aren't always obvious and/or propped up by authoritarian rivals to the U.S., would make a lot more sense than what we typically see.
3.)Central Asia: one of the most underappreciated regions of the world-I freely admit I have taken to a deep fascination with this corner of the world over the past few years, so I am definitely a bit biased here, but even so.....has anyone noticed just how few TLs even have a secondary focus on Central Asia? It seems to be even more undercovered than South America, if anything.
4.)Earlier Successful Civil Rights Movement in the USA-I'd definitely like to see more of these, for sure; no reason why real success at all had to wait until the '50s and then peaking in the '60s(and way too many I've seen, even if many were only oneshots, had it prolonged to the '70s or later, or even never fully coming to light at all, almost always without any even halfway plausible reason to do so), as even with a POD up to about WWI it wasn't terribly hard to move the latter up to the '50s.....and perhaps, further back, even have rather more successes going back at least a few decades and then culminating in its completion, be it in the '60s, '50s or even a bit earlier. (In fact, it'd be nice to see more TLs in which societal progress in general happens sooner than IOTL, be it in the U.S.A. or elsewhere)
5.)No *Fascist Dictatorship in Japan(or at least not like OTL's Tojo regime)-Kinda self-explanatory-this isn't necessarily always implausible, but it doesn't have to be the same, you know?
6.)Larger Mexico that is a democratic republic, not a monarchy and/or an Empire-Yeah, the "Mexico becomes strong as an Empire" thing has been done to death at this point-I'm all for larger Mexico TLs, but why not have more democratic republics, instead, or heck, even ones that more strongly emulate the OTL *U.S., with or without America in the same universe? (And for that matter, I'd like to see fewer Royalist Perus as well-that area's loyalty to the Spanish Crown was often exaggerated, anyway, especially in light of Tupac Amaru II's rebellion circa 1780)
7.)Latin America being (at least somewhat) better off than OTL-Okay, this trope has been getting a little more love in recent years.....and I love that. But I'd still like to see more of it, and not just in terms of political stability, but also sociocultural progress, and even economic prosperity, too.
8.)Genuinely Democratic, Liberal Russia-Admittedly, this can be a challenge to pull off, but I'd still like to see some more TLs along these lines, too, and I've even considered writing a couple. (IMO, even better if there's no dictators in the case of a post-Czarist Russia)
9.)More Successful *Liberia-okay, this one came to mind a bit later, but I think it'd be cool to see more Liberia-related TLs on here.
10.)More deeply exploring the roles of non-state actors in history: I'd like to see more focus on alternate NGOs, etc. and how they might be able to affect change on sure, you do hear about protest + general advocacy movements(like that for Civil Rights in the U.S., or against Apartheid in South Africa, or the mostly peaceful pro-democracy revolutions in Eastern Europe in 1989-91), but what about alternate versions of the *U.N., or the *Red Cross, etc.? (But on the flip side, though, we also may occasionally need to cover the dark side of things as well-terrorism, especially, would eventually be an issue to have to talk about at some point, as unpleasant as that is.)
Actually, it honestly really didn't even have much of one even IOTL, TBH.....and almost certainly would not have surpassed OTL by very much, if at all, without some fairly significant PODs that would not only have made America less prosperous and safe than IOTL but very well could have outright jeopardized democracy as well-if anything, I'll even ask.....why aren't there more TLs in which segregation ended earlier, and/or was never as strong to begin with?
Yeah, that would be nice to see(or at least a stronger one, if not a fully Radical one, per se), especially in light of all the TLs that essentially have Reconstruction fail as badly as OTL, or worse, be they focused specifically on the Civil War, or not. (For what it's worth, I'm not totally opposed to the idea of a worse-off Reconstruction.....but it would be nice to see the proverbial pendulum swing back at some point, which some TLs I've seen don't seem to do well enough, if at all.)
It had to take off at some point, though, Mike(at least in any plausible scenario)-not only did the CRM have it's ultimate roots going back at least to the Reconstruction period.....but the Cold War actually didn't really help things IOTL, especially considering how fearful many were of Communism(and how often hard/far-rightists attempted to portray Civil Rights + anti-discrimination measures in general as "Communist")-yes, there certainly are at least a fair few plausible scenarios where it could have, and honestly, I think that would be an interesting idea to explore.....but that just wasn't the case in our world(not that it really hurt, either, to clarify myself further; it appears to have been rather a wash more than anything, and even the World Wars only had a relatively minor effect overall-even though that also could have been rather greater.).
I've actually been interested by this idea for a fairly long while myself, TBH; FWIW, I'd argue that it'd be really hard to restrict the *United States to just the Atlantic Coast without really stretching plausibility, and even just stopping the U.S. at the Rockies(and not expanding to Central America instead) is really a fair bit easier said than actually done believably-but one could make interesting stories that have the U.S., say, annex not only the Pacific Northwest, but also everything up to 54'40 and even a few other bits that it didn't IOTL, like the Bahamas or Newfoundland, etc., while California, the interior Southwest(maybe not all of New Mexico, though), and some bits of Texas are out of the picture.
There are actually many, many ideas that I've entertained along these lines, but I'll gladly serve some up right now:
1.)Less harsh legislation in regards to Chinese immigration to the U.S.-Although avoiding this altogether might be genuinely difficult to accomplish plausibly, on the other hand, it wouldn't be that hard, at all, to make laws restricting Chinese + other Asian immigration to the U.S. at least somewhat less harsh. (Too many TLs that I've seen that even touch on this tend to assume to just copy the OTL situation.)
2.)If the Confederacy must survive for a time in one's TL.....why not make it a pariah(preferably at least a struggling, if not outright poor, one)?-Yeah, waaaaaayyyyyy too many TLs exist out there that not only have the C.S.A. surviving past the Civil War, but have it be rich, prosperous, and accepted as pretty much a "normal" country by the rest of the world.....despite the unlikelihood of any of those things being true in any given scenario. At least having the C.S.A. be a basket case, even if one whose problems aren't always obvious and/or propped up by authoritarian rivals to the U.S., would make a lot more sense than what we typically see.
3.)Central Asia: one of the most underappreciated regions of the world-I freely admit I have taken to a deep fascination with this corner of the world over the past few years, so I am definitely a bit biased here, but even so.....has anyone noticed just how few TLs even have a secondary focus on Central Asia? It seems to be even more undercovered than South America, if anything.
4.)Earlier Successful Civil Rights Movement in the USA-I'd definitely like to see more of these, for sure; no reason why real success at all had to wait until the '50s and then peaking in the '60s(and way too many I've seen, even if many were only oneshots, had it prolonged to the '70s or later, or even never fully coming to light at all, almost always without any even halfway plausible reason to do so), as even with a POD up to about WWI it wasn't terribly hard to move the latter up to the '50s.....and perhaps, further back, even have rather more successes going back at least a few decades and then culminating in its completion, be it in the '60s, '50s or even a bit earlier. (In fact, it'd be nice to see more TLs in which societal progress in general happens sooner than IOTL, be it in the U.S.A. or elsewhere)
5.)No *Fascist Dictatorship in Japan(or at least not like OTL's Tojo regime)-Kinda self-explanatory-this isn't necessarily always implausible, but it doesn't have to be the same, you know?
6.)Larger Mexico that is a democratic republic, not a monarchy and/or an Empire-Yeah, the "Mexico becomes strong as an Empire" thing has been done to death at this point-I'm all for larger Mexico TLs, but why not have more democratic republics, instead, or heck, even ones that more strongly emulate the OTL *U.S., with or without America in the same universe? (And for that matter, I'd like to see fewer Royalist Perus as well-that area's loyalty to the Spanish Crown was often exaggerated, anyway, especially in light of Tupac Amaru II's rebellion circa 1780)
7.)Latin America being (at least somewhat) better off than OTL-Okay, this trope has been getting a little more love in recent years.....and I love that. But I'd still like to see more of it, and not just in terms of political stability, but also sociocultural progress, and even economic prosperity, too.
8.)Genuinely Democratic, Liberal Russia-Admittedly, this can be a challenge to pull off, but I'd still like to see some more TLs along these lines, too, and I've even considered writing a couple. (IMO, even better if there's no dictators in the case of a post-Czarist Russia)
9.)More Successful *Liberia-okay, this one came to mind a bit later, but I think it'd be cool to see more Liberia-related TLs on here.
10.)More deeply exploring the roles of non-state actors in history: I'd like to see more focus on alternate NGOs, etc. and how they might be able to affect change on sure, you do hear about protest + general advocacy movements(like that for Civil Rights in the U.S., or against Apartheid in South Africa, or the mostly peaceful pro-democracy revolutions in Eastern Europe in 1989-91), but what about alternate versions of the *U.N., or the *Red Cross, etc.? (But on the flip side, though, we also may occasionally need to cover the dark side of things as well-terrorism, especially, would eventually be an issue to have to talk about at some point, as unpleasant as that is.)
Actually, it honestly really didn't even have much of one even IOTL, TBH.....and almost certainly would not have surpassed OTL by very much, if at all, without some fairly significant PODs that would not only have made America less prosperous and safe than IOTL but very well could have outright jeopardized democracy as well-if anything, I'll even ask.....why aren't there more TLs in which segregation ended earlier, and/or was never as strong to begin with?
Yeah, that would be nice to see(or at least a stronger one, if not a fully Radical one, per se), especially in light of all the TLs that essentially have Reconstruction fail as badly as OTL, or worse, be they focused specifically on the Civil War, or not. (For what it's worth, I'm not totally opposed to the idea of a worse-off Reconstruction.....but it would be nice to see the proverbial pendulum swing back at some point, which some TLs I've seen don't seem to do well enough, if at all.)
It had to take off at some point, though, Mike(at least in any plausible scenario)-not only did the CRM have it's ultimate roots going back at least to the Reconstruction period.....but the Cold War actually didn't really help things IOTL, especially considering how fearful many were of Communism(and how often hard/far-rightists attempted to portray Civil Rights + anti-discrimination measures in general as "Communist")-yes, there certainly are at least a fair few plausible scenarios where it could have, and honestly, I think that would be an interesting idea to explore.....but that just wasn't the case in our world(not that it really hurt, either, to clarify myself further; it appears to have been rather a wash more than anything, and even the World Wars only had a relatively minor effect overall-even though that also could have been rather greater.).
I've actually been interested by this idea for a fairly long while myself, TBH; FWIW, I'd argue that it'd be really hard to restrict the *United States to just the Atlantic Coast without really stretching plausibility, and even just stopping the U.S. at the Rockies(and not expanding to Central America instead) is really a fair bit easier said than actually done believably-but one could make interesting stories that have the U.S., say, annex not only the Pacific Northwest, but also everything up to 54'40 and even a few other bits that it didn't IOTL, like the Bahamas or Newfoundland, etc., while California, the interior Southwest(maybe not all of New Mexico, though), and some bits of Texas are out of the picture.
Oh, yes, that would be nice, and maybe I'll do something like this myself someday.
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Yeah I think it peaked with Cinco de Mayo
I dont think anyone can one up that one nor is it worth the atempt
Not sure if it counts as that but I did have Corporocratic Mexica in my No Spanish Colonization setting, which was basically the Dutch East Indies but lead by the Aztecs
But I'll admit I didnt give it as much attention as it deserved due to the limitations of it being a oneshot
Agreed, then again Im a sucker for Iran TLs
Me and my boys are striving for that!
Though I'll admit I'm always leaning towards giving Brazil special treatment for being my country but yeah I do hope that trend continues
I did a TL a while back where the Confederacy was an impoverished and unstable banana republic propped up by a Latin American monarchist bloc as bulwark against the United States that still eventually gets reconquered.
This. Central Asia doesn’t get nearly enough attention.
Agreed. It’s actually less of a challenge than one might think, for example Alexander II never being assassinated or a more successful 1905 revolution leading to Nicholas II abdicating in favor of someone competent could result in a Russia that’s a liberal, democratic constitutional monarchy. IMHO, by the time of OTL’s revolution, it was already too late, but but if Kerensky were to make peace with Germany, a democratic post-Tsarist Russia might be possible.
I don't get your position. Like at all. I see it asserted frequently on this board and yet I see zero evidence presented. What I see instead is denial of America's history of ultraviolent racism and the treatment of same as some sort of weird historical fluke that was just bound to end sooner or later because reasons
I mean they literally shut down the entire Virginia state school system rather than share classrooms with black children and that's just one of hundreds of extreme reactions. That doesn't strike me as something that people do over something, you know, they don't really care too much about anyway and are happy to be rid of.
Tl;Dr - please provide some kind of evidence for your assertion that America was chomping at the bit to end institutionalized racism and just, what, never got around to it in the century prior?
Nice discussion we're having here, folks! 
Ya know.....I've actually thought making at least one or two TLs along these lines(not full ones, though).
Fascinating indeed! I don't think I've ever seen a TL quite like it before. Got any links for us?
FWIW, I did have a TL idea revolving around essentially a more stable, prosperous, and influential Brazil than in our own universe.....
Now that's a pretty unique twist, I have to say.
I am, however, hoping to help change that. Maybe if I can finally get around to more writing, I may just post a couple here-I do have some very interesting ideas that might intrigue some folks here.....
That would definitely be interesting to see, for sure-I'm not convinced Tsarist Russia can be plausibly salvaged after 1913-14, but the Bolsheviks taking over was not inevitable and there were multiple opprotunities to make a Democratic Russia possible even in the 1910s before the Red takeover.
That'd be nice to see, yeah.
TBH, I only just saw this reply by pure chance, but having read your response in full, I suppose a rebuttal may be needed. To be quite honest.....I genuinely don't want to sound mean but I really don't think you're quite comprehending my argument here, BoosterGold.
To be fair, I can't deny there have been some real issues in this regard, especially on boards that aren't as liberal-leaning as this one is. However, though, I can safely say that's not what's happening here.
I don't think anybody has ever argued that the whole situation was a fluke, FWIW(though at least a few individual happenings certainly were, and no doubt at least a fair few others as well).....but yes, Jim Crow, etc. was going to have to end at some point(just as slavery couldn't plausibly survive to the present day), and I've yet to hear a single argument how it could plausibly last into the present-that doesn't involve the rise of an authoritarian dictatorship-that makes any sense whatsoever.
I'm aware of that, and Prince William County saw one of the more extreme examples of this-but was this really inevitable, even with a more recent POD, let alone, say, around the time of Teddy Roosevelt or William McKinley? I find that hard to believe.
My assertion, as it were, wasn't necessarily what you thought it was-the argument I made was, that there are a number of opprotunities that were indeed missed for not only a somewhat earlier end to segregation, but even more so, for more progress to have been made prior to the 1950s, speaking in general. And in fact, there are a number of things I can point to that support that argument to one extent or the other.
For what it's worth, I will admit that I can't have helped but conclude that we were very lucky there wasn't a fairly nasty wave of terrorism nationwide in the wake of all this-apart from what the Klan was already doing in the South, I should add-and hundreds, if not some thousands, more innocent civilians very well could have died at the hands of far-right extremists from Coast to Coast(and it wouldn't have been just the Klan. For one under-discussed example, go look up the Hard Hats sometime; even though they weren't really organized like the KKK was, some of those guys had been quite capable of doing some real damage, too).
But on the other hand, however, there is a reason why you didn't see any public attempts to actually roll back the laudable gains that were made possible by the courageous acts of the brave men and women who participated in the Civil Rights Movement back then(as much as the far-right might have wished for it), and, more importantly, why any individual calls for such failed to gain any real traction(outside of the far-right and perhaps sectors of the hard right as well) even as Richard Nixon won in a landslide in 1972. (Yes, one could point out that the reactionaries did manage to game the system eventually, through the Supreme Court, etc.....but that took time, and a lot of luck on their part-and luck that may not be lasting too much longer at that.)
Or, if we want to go back even further, just for one example, some have taken notice that the state of Oregon actually technically banned African-American residence until 1926-but not only was it rarely enforced after the Civil War, but there were two prior attempts to repeal said legislation that came close to succeeding, one in the 1880s and another in 1905. (And I should note that there did not appear to be widespread public backlash after the law was repealed from what I can find-the fact that the Second Klan had just been discredited likely helped a bit, but no doubt it was also rather deeper + more complicated than just that)
And I don't even need to go into that much detail at all about how Reconstruction could have turned out at least somewhat more efficient(even by the standards of its own day)-hell, just look at the fact that Andrew Johnson's impeachment failed by only one vote in 1868.
Of course, to be fair, I don't disagree that none of these changes would have made the U.S.A. some sort of sparkling utopia, or even all that close. But it's also undeniable even in the strictest objective terms, that there were paths not taken, that could have been, and which would have been for the better.....and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that, let alone exploring that.
Ya know.....I've actually thought making at least one or two TLs along these lines(not full ones, though).
Fascinating indeed! I don't think I've ever seen a TL quite like it before. Got any links for us?
FWIW, I did have a TL idea revolving around essentially a more stable, prosperous, and influential Brazil than in our own universe.....
Now that's a pretty unique twist, I have to say.
I am, however, hoping to help change that. Maybe if I can finally get around to more writing, I may just post a couple here-I do have some very interesting ideas that might intrigue some folks here.....
That would definitely be interesting to see, for sure-I'm not convinced Tsarist Russia can be plausibly salvaged after 1913-14, but the Bolsheviks taking over was not inevitable and there were multiple opprotunities to make a Democratic Russia possible even in the 1910s before the Red takeover.
That'd be nice to see, yeah.
TBH, I only just saw this reply by pure chance, but having read your response in full, I suppose a rebuttal may be needed. To be quite honest.....I genuinely don't want to sound mean but I really don't think you're quite comprehending my argument here, BoosterGold.
Umm......there's actually plenty of evidence out there(including some that's been presented on this very board), and you can even find some extraordinary stuff if you know where to look.
To be fair, I can't deny there have been some real issues in this regard, especially on boards that aren't as liberal-leaning as this one is. However, though, I can safely say that's not what's happening here.
I don't think anybody has ever argued that the whole situation was a fluke, FWIW(though at least a few individual happenings certainly were, and no doubt at least a fair few others as well).....but yes, Jim Crow, etc. was going to have to end at some point(just as slavery couldn't plausibly survive to the present day), and I've yet to hear a single argument how it could plausibly last into the present-that doesn't involve the rise of an authoritarian dictatorship-that makes any sense whatsoever.
I'm aware of that, and Prince William County saw one of the more extreme examples of this-but was this really inevitable, even with a more recent POD, let alone, say, around the time of Teddy Roosevelt or William McKinley? I find that hard to believe.
My assertion, as it were, wasn't necessarily what you thought it was-the argument I made was, that there are a number of opprotunities that were indeed missed for not only a somewhat earlier end to segregation, but even more so, for more progress to have been made prior to the 1950s, speaking in general. And in fact, there are a number of things I can point to that support that argument to one extent or the other.
There's that one example you provided, but there are other things we can point to that generally do contradict what seems to be your implied argument; as genuinely outright unpopular as interracial marriage was in the South(whereas in the North, the aftermath of Loving Vs. Virginia actually didn't see very much of a sustained public pushback(though to be fair, part of that may have been a rarer example of good luck, I suppose). And even after the VRA + CRA were passed, in 1965 and 1964 respectively......though the Selma, Ala. incident rightfully horrified many non-reactionary Americans, as did the Schwerner + Goldman + Liuzzo murders in MS.....it's also true that we didn't see things like rioting for weeks on end, or dozens of shootings and multiple car/truck bombings, etc.....and all of these things were quite possible as well!
For what it's worth, I will admit that I can't have helped but conclude that we were very lucky there wasn't a fairly nasty wave of terrorism nationwide in the wake of all this-apart from what the Klan was already doing in the South, I should add-and hundreds, if not some thousands, more innocent civilians very well could have died at the hands of far-right extremists from Coast to Coast(and it wouldn't have been just the Klan. For one under-discussed example, go look up the Hard Hats sometime; even though they weren't really organized like the KKK was, some of those guys had been quite capable of doing some real damage, too).
But on the other hand, however, there is a reason why you didn't see any public attempts to actually roll back the laudable gains that were made possible by the courageous acts of the brave men and women who participated in the Civil Rights Movement back then(as much as the far-right might have wished for it), and, more importantly, why any individual calls for such failed to gain any real traction(outside of the far-right and perhaps sectors of the hard right as well) even as Richard Nixon won in a landslide in 1972. (Yes, one could point out that the reactionaries did manage to game the system eventually, through the Supreme Court, etc.....but that took time, and a lot of luck on their part-and luck that may not be lasting too much longer at that.)
Or, if we want to go back even further, just for one example, some have taken notice that the state of Oregon actually technically banned African-American residence until 1926-but not only was it rarely enforced after the Civil War, but there were two prior attempts to repeal said legislation that came close to succeeding, one in the 1880s and another in 1905. (And I should note that there did not appear to be widespread public backlash after the law was repealed from what I can find-the fact that the Second Klan had just been discredited likely helped a bit, but no doubt it was also rather deeper + more complicated than just that)
And I don't even need to go into that much detail at all about how Reconstruction could have turned out at least somewhat more efficient(even by the standards of its own day)-hell, just look at the fact that Andrew Johnson's impeachment failed by only one vote in 1868.
Of course, to be fair, I don't disagree that none of these changes would have made the U.S.A. some sort of sparkling utopia, or even all that close. But it's also undeniable even in the strictest objective terms, that there were paths not taken, that could have been, and which would have been for the better.....and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that, let alone exploring that.
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An underused POD.
A lot of early modern stuff is underused, (except for the Tudors*). I'd like to see a timeline where Tamerlane doesn't destroy Georgia or does invade China (probably disastrously but it would still change things).
Also more TLs in pre-Mughal India would be great though they'd suffer from most of us not knowing enough to understand the differences. Make the POD something large I guess.
1. a peaceful independence of the Latin American countries.
2. The Japanese manage to colonize the western part (OTL Peru, Chile) of South America competing with the Spanish and Portuguese.
4. Italy is unified much earlier by joining the colonial race for the Americas.
5. The Portuguese royal family never arrives in Brazil.
6. Polish-Lithuanian-Moscow Commonwealth.
2. The Japanese manage to colonize the western part (OTL Peru, Chile) of South America competing with the Spanish and Portuguese.
4. Italy is unified much earlier by joining the colonial race for the Americas.
5. The Portuguese royal family never arrives in Brazil.
6. Polish-Lithuanian-Moscow Commonwealth.
I really REALLY want to read more timelines about a East Asian/ASEAN nation developing differently than how it did otl
1. post WW2 South Korea, it's economic/domestic politics and it conquering North Korea
2. post WW2 Japan and Philippines economic/domestic politics also going differently and for the better (For example the Asian Financial Crisis being less damaging for the region)
Some example TL's that are like this and love:
1. post WW2 South Korea, it's economic/domestic politics and it conquering North Korea
2. post WW2 Japan and Philippines economic/domestic politics also going differently and for the better (For example the Asian Financial Crisis being less damaging for the region)
Some example TL's that are like this and love:
Emerald of The Equator: An Indonesian TL
An alternate TL based on a dropped-EG about the same topic. Starting from 1955, exactly after the latest EG development, this TL would basically be a mostly Indonesian TL, talking about more in-depth as time goes by. Expect also improvements as time goes by, therefore slowly revise the old posts...
www.alternatehistory.com
Indonesia ATL: The Presidency of Try Sutrisno (1997-)
For obvious reasons, Indonesia circa 1965 seems to be a popular choice on these forum. My idea is about something more recent. IRL, in November 1997, Suharto goes on a foreign trip which includes attending the APEC Summit, visiting some African countries, and even going on an Umrah in Saudi...
www.alternatehistory.com
沒有國民黨就沒有中國, Without the Kuomintang there would be no China, A Republic of China Story
諸言-Intoduction China has been a great civilization since antiquity. But with greatness comes envy. For thousands of years, China’s enemies sought to plunder and conquer. Since these enemies usually came from the North, a Great Wall was built to keep them out. But no one had expected that...
www.alternatehistory.com
What makes it that implausible that it lasts to the present day? Jim Crow at least if not full blown slavery, that is.
I mean, "with a POD in (year)" is one thing. But this seems less "by (year)" and more that ending if anything sooner is the more likely scenario from the start, which...I'd like to hear your reasoning for, although this may not be the thread for it.
For my ideas I'd like to see used more often (I can't recall reading these before, at least):
What if Ariq Böke instead of Kubulai Khan? Not necessarily him winning the OTL war, as Kubulai dying before Möngke would also count.
What if Empress Matilda beat Stephen and was queen?
What if one of Alexander III of Scotland's OTL sons take his place on the throne after his father dies (presumably later than OTL, as his OTL death was hardly inevitable) instead of both predeceasing him.
Georgia not being crushed by Timur was mentioned already, but seconding it.
Not all in the same timeline. But they're interesting.
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Still waiting for a Danelaw, Pontus or Babylon wank; the world apparently only began in 1066 (unless of course Egypt, Greece or Rome comes into play), and even then not really. Korea's Joseon dynasty not going into a Byzantine tailspin after Sejong's death would be interesting too.
@CaliBoy1990 I totally agree with you on the CRM happening earlier
One EXTREMELY underused POD is the Village of Euclid v. Ambler Realty Co. SCOTUS case going the other way. It's understated how HORRIBLE Euclidean (Exclusive) zoning was for the lives of African Americans and how it massively widened the race wealth gap.
One EXTREMELY underused POD is the Village of Euclid v. Ambler Realty Co. SCOTUS case going the other way. It's understated how HORRIBLE Euclidean (Exclusive) zoning was for the lives of African Americans and how it massively widened the race wealth gap.
Mine:
1. A more successful Council of Constance resulting in an earlier reconciliation between Western and Eastern Churches, Will this lead to both sides being in full communion with each other?
2. A world where Westphalian sovereignty isn't the predominant mode of international relations; i.e. it's not just about states dealing with states. I think Malé Rising hinted at something like this.
3. German unification done by a third party aside from Prussia or Austria.
4. Korea not being a mere afterthought in geopolitics for most of its history.
5. The Emperor of Japan being an actual ruler more often than being a figurehead.
6. A French Revolution without Napoleon or a similar figure changing the dynamics.
1. A more successful Council of Constance resulting in an earlier reconciliation between Western and Eastern Churches, Will this lead to both sides being in full communion with each other?
2. A world where Westphalian sovereignty isn't the predominant mode of international relations; i.e. it's not just about states dealing with states. I think Malé Rising hinted at something like this.
3. German unification done by a third party aside from Prussia or Austria.
4. Korea not being a mere afterthought in geopolitics for most of its history.
5. The Emperor of Japan being an actual ruler more often than being a figurehead.
6. A French Revolution without Napoleon or a similar figure changing the dynamics.