...and Hitler gets into art school in the 1920's.
Now what?
Does someone else come to power and history goes on?
Does anything change at all?
Now what?
Does someone else come to power and history goes on?
Does anything change at all?
Weimar, 1920's...The Art School Board is Bribed...
- Thread starter VirgilCaine
- Start date
Brilliantlight
Banned
VirgilCaine said:
Another dictator comes to power in Germany but hopefully not one as bloodthirsty and insane!
Ludendorff might be a good candidate in the earlier weimar years, though without Hitler, the Republic is liable to be more rather than less stable. By the time of the Depression, he is, of course, rather discredited, as are various other would-be generalissmos (Kapp comes to mind). Still, if he manages to get backing from buisiness interests in a 'Red scare' scenario, a Ludendorff-Hindenburg ticket is just barely imaginable. IIRC they hated each other, but then, Hindenburg despised Hitler and worked with him.
Another alternative would be Goering. We tend to see him as a somewhat ludicrous hanger-on on Hitler's coat tails, but in the late 20s and early 30s, Goering was an active and dangerous powerbroker and quite a few people were not at all sure which of the two called the shots in the Nazi party. If Goering places himself at the head of a Nationalist, fascist-style movement, he stands a good chance of winning the support of the plutocrats. He certainly was happier in that kind of company (Hitler was notoriously uneasy around 'aristocracy', Goering revelled in luxury).
Of course it is just about possible that Germany doesn't go the fascist route. I doubt Weimar has a chance at staying a stable democracy past 1929, but something like 'directed democracy' under a CEO-chancellor and technocrat ministers is a distinct possibility. ESpecially as a lot of the 'muscle' siphoned away from the traditional right by the Nazis will now be available to Stahlhelm and (to a much lesser degree, unfortunately) Reichsbanner. Their parties were traditional conservatives happy enough to work in a the context of a multiparty system and bourgeois voting stuctures. Many of them secretly harbored monarchist sentiment, but I don't think anyone seriously considered reinstalling Wilhelm II (not to mention the French would never have tolerated it). Thus, something like what they planned when they 'hired' Hitler could actually work ATL, with a figurehead President and a ministerial technocracy. Shades of Franco.
Another alternative would be Goering. We tend to see him as a somewhat ludicrous hanger-on on Hitler's coat tails, but in the late 20s and early 30s, Goering was an active and dangerous powerbroker and quite a few people were not at all sure which of the two called the shots in the Nazi party. If Goering places himself at the head of a Nationalist, fascist-style movement, he stands a good chance of winning the support of the plutocrats. He certainly was happier in that kind of company (Hitler was notoriously uneasy around 'aristocracy', Goering revelled in luxury).
Of course it is just about possible that Germany doesn't go the fascist route. I doubt Weimar has a chance at staying a stable democracy past 1929, but something like 'directed democracy' under a CEO-chancellor and technocrat ministers is a distinct possibility. ESpecially as a lot of the 'muscle' siphoned away from the traditional right by the Nazis will now be available to Stahlhelm and (to a much lesser degree, unfortunately) Reichsbanner. Their parties were traditional conservatives happy enough to work in a the context of a multiparty system and bourgeois voting stuctures. Many of them secretly harbored monarchist sentiment, but I don't think anyone seriously considered reinstalling Wilhelm II (not to mention the French would never have tolerated it). Thus, something like what they planned when they 'hired' Hitler could actually work ATL, with a figurehead President and a ministerial technocracy. Shades of Franco.
Nice analysis, but I have some points on it:
First: Reichsbanner? An armed social democratic organisation- well I´d say tey would be outlawed together with the communist Rotfrontkämpferbund.
Well, depends on how far a "coalition of the willing" will reach to the left, but I´d think that a regime would like to demobilise every armed group ouside the institutions, especially one ideological opposed to.
Second: Kapp- well I always have problem to take him serious. A pure bureaucrat without a real important rank- I think he was Generallandschaftsdirektor, something like a county commissioner appoints himself chancellor.
And further, while Wilhelm II was decredited even deep into monarchist circles, talk about the reinstitution of the monarchy always came around the crown prince.
Goering would be a really propable choice. married into aristocracy, I think. Quite important to have somebody in charge who knows which knife goes to which course. (no irony intended)
Greets, Steffen
First: Reichsbanner? An armed social democratic organisation- well I´d say tey would be outlawed together with the communist Rotfrontkämpferbund.
Well, depends on how far a "coalition of the willing" will reach to the left, but I´d think that a regime would like to demobilise every armed group ouside the institutions, especially one ideological opposed to.
Second: Kapp- well I always have problem to take him serious. A pure bureaucrat without a real important rank- I think he was Generallandschaftsdirektor, something like a county commissioner appoints himself chancellor.
And further, while Wilhelm II was decredited even deep into monarchist circles, talk about the reinstitution of the monarchy always came around the crown prince.
Goering would be a really propable choice. married into aristocracy, I think. Quite important to have somebody in charge who knows which knife goes to which course. (no irony intended)
Greets, Steffen
Grey Wolf
Donor
Regarding the restoration of the monarchy it was no LITTLE thing that the Kaiser said that none of his sons should accept the crown whilst he still lived. I believe they took that very seriously. It was far more of a stumbling block than the Crown Prince. Adalbert was a popular figure in the reasonable right and was their choice for a restored monarchy though to reconcile it with the Kaiser it would have had to be as Regent
Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf
Well, why not go back a bit further? Young Adolph's mother has a bit better taste this time, and marries Herr Schmitler, a kind hearted gentleman who takes a real interrest in the boy's development. Decades later Adolph Schmitler (having taken on his stepfather's name) leads his party to victory, and will be credited for saving the young republic from the almost certain doom the depression would have lead to without such a charismatic, idealistic leader. By 1948 Britain and France realize that Soviet Russia is much more a threat to their own security than is the Weimar republic, and propose lifting restrictions on German military buildup in exchange for an alliance. Adolph Schmitler is horrified by the idea of building things that can kilkl people, and declines, but his party looses power the next year, and the alliance is formed shortly thereafter. The United States, having learned nothing from her war with the Empire of Japan, wants nothing to do with the treaty, but once Poland has joined the alliance it proves quite capable of deterring any Soviet agression.
I wrote an "alternative obituary" for Adolph Hitler once. The POD is that he joins the church after his military service, leaves to take up politics as the standard-bearer of the Catholic Center Party, defeats Strasser's Nazis, and builds up Germany as a bulwark against Soviet aggression. Stalin moves in the late 1940s and is ultimately driven back into Russia proper, with Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic states, Finland, Belarus, etc. building monuments to "Hitler the Liberator."
Quite a turnaround from OTL, huh?
Quite a turnaround from OTL, huh?