Was there any American POWs and MIAs left in Vietnam post 1975? (Yes this is a serious question)

One rumor that I heard many years ago, was that American POW's were sent to the Soviet Union as payment for weapons. The thinking was that the Soviet Union wanted to have information on American aircraft tactics, background of key officers, and the direction of future research. Once they had gotten all the information that they could, the POW's were killed.

Again there were many rumors for many years.
 
One thing that occurs to me, is that in the US an entire industry has sprung up around the whole Vietnam "MIA mythology"... The manufacture and sale of those omnipresent black-and-white POW/MIA stickers, flags, patches, t-shirts, etc has got to be a multimillion-dollar industry. I think that constant visual presence has contributed greatly to the popular notion that there are still aging POW's kept in bamboo cages somewhere in Vietnam, for whatever reason.... despite the number of US politicians and veterans who have visited or revisited Indochina in more recent years...
 
is that in the US an entire industry has sprung up around the whole Vietnam "MIA mythology"... The manufacture and sale of those omnipresent black-and-white POW/MIA stickers, flags, patches, t-shirts, etc has got to be a multimillion-dollar industry.
Mythology is the right word. When I see one of those flags I wonder if the person that put it up knows its basis is nonsense and 1980s action film fodder. Unfortunately Rambo 2 made a lot of people think its premise was real and that nothing could be put past those nefarious communists that want to rule the world and destroy Christmas and Mom’s apple pie and make everyone drink vodka.
 
Last edited:
Mythology is the right word. When I see one of those flags I wonder if the person that put it up knows its basis is nonsense and 1980s action film fodder. Unfortunately Rambo 2 made a lot of people think its premise was real and that nothing could be put past those nefarious communists that want to rule the world and destroy Christmas and Mom’s apple pie and make everyone drink vodka.
Myths that continue to make money tend to be self-perpetuating :rolleyes:
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
There are so many "well, I heard that" rumors that even if something had a grain of truth to it it was lost in all the BS.

What is very likely to have happened to far too many people who made it to the ground alive is that they were killed almost immediately after capture or while avoiding capture or after escaping. The Pathet Lao, Khmer Rouge, and Viet Cong were all ill-equipped to take and keep prisoners, and were often lacking the sort of unit discipline where a general order not to kill "Air Pirates" would be strictly obeyed. There were also reported cases where down aircrew were "rescued" NVA troops from local villagers who were more than ready to do what they thought best (a circumstance all to familiar to Allied personnel shot down over Germany in the later stages of WW II).

It is also all too possible that U.S. personnel were killed during initial interrogation and never made it one of the larger holding facilities like the Hanoi Hilton and were thus never included on the list of PoW who died after capture that senior PoW personnel maintained.

Could a small number of experts have been "traded" to China or the USSR as part of the supply arrangement with the North? Absolutely. Enough to have created the nearly 50 year crusade to recover them (presumably alive)? Depends on perspective. From the "leave no man behind" rule, one is enough to literally go to war. However, would a war with the PRC or USSR in 1980 have made any sense in anything but the narrowest of perspectives?
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Mythology is the right word. When I see one of those flags I wonder if the person that put it up knows its basis is nonsense and 1980s action film fodder. Unfortunately Rambo 2 made a lot of people think its premise was real and that nothing could be put past those nefarious communists that want to rule the world and destroy Christmas and Mom’s apple pie and make everyone drink vodka.
Most of those flags are flown because U.S. law requires them on certain days the National Colors are displayed at government buildings.
 
Last edited:
I haven't visited this question in forever, but my understanding is that the Pentagon holds that less than one hundred of the Vietnam era MIA personnel are unresolved cases, with, at this point several dozen known.
prisoners unaccounted for.

Of prisoners known to be imprisoned in the central North Vietnamese prison system but not accounted for, it is a dead certainty that some of then were tortured to death, but the present regime is unwilling to officially admit to this. It is also quite probable that a corrupt and inefficient byzantine bureaucracy mislaid a number of remains or intentionally destroyed some.

Were some prisoners shipped to China or the USSR? The evidence for this is really not there, in my opinion. Might well have happened in the Korean War where there is a STRONG circumstantial case for that, but I remain dubious about this happening in Vietnam.

Little known fact. Over a hundred Americans, mostly civilian, were captured after the fall of Saigon in 1975, and released over a three year period. These prisoners, now mostly forgotten, fuelled some of the tales of POWs held after the war.

Another bit of trivia. Only three officers of the CIA (*) are known to have been captured during the entire war. All three survived and were released.

(*) After the fall of Saigon, a former CIA contract employee Tucker Gougleman, was captured and died in Vietnamese prison, reportedly tortured to death. His remains were, however, returned to the US in 1977.
 
Mythology is the right word. When I see one of those flags I wonder if the person that put it up knows its basis is nonsense and 1980s action film fodder. Unfortunately Rambo 2 made a lot of people think its premise was real and that nothing could be put past those nefarious communists that want to rule the world and destroy Christmas and Mom’s apple pie and make everyone drink vodka.

. . . and don't forget also the Chuck Norris franchise 'Missing In Action'
 
None of the POWs who returned in '73 reported being interrogated by Russians. Though several who were in Hanoi during the Spring of '66 were handed questionnaires asking for specific military and technical information on aircraft, and two of them (LCDR Bob Shumaker and CDR Jerry Denton) felt the questions had been written by a Russian-based on both having taken Russian at Annapolis. Were the Russians after specific items in regards to aircraft, aircraft systems (avionics, flight controls, etc.), and classified military information? Almost certainly: it would be dereliction of duty on the part of the GRU Station in Hanoi not to do so. But they likely did it indirectly. That is not to say that the Russians may very well have requested the NVN hand over prisoners the Russians felt were valuable, but the NVN may very well have refused. One thing that MAY led itself to this possibility is that Capt. Alexander Zuyev, who flew a MiG-29 to Turkey and got asylum in the U.S., said in his memoirs that he was told flat out by a SAF nuclear weapons officer when his unit was training to deliver the RN-40 tactical nuclear bomb that the arming, fuzing, and PAL action links were directly copied from the American-and that information came from several American prisoners who were nuclear-qualified pilots that were "loaned" to the Soviets by the North Vietnamese. Unfortunately, Zuyev died in a plane crash in Washington State back in 2001 and can't be interviewed about the matter. (I have the book, and if I can find it-it's packed away in storage with other paperbacks-I'll provide the page citation). Problem is, it's just one account.


One thing that can be dispensed with is the myth of the "Backseaters" that is, highly qualified aircrew who had specialist knowledge of Electronic Warfare systems, who were not returned. Most of the F-100F, F-105F/G or EB-66 crew who were shot down have been accounted for. Two F-105 crewmen shot down near the PRC border were seen to bail out, beeper contact made as their chutes deployed, but both have never been accounted for. Two more were shot down in Laos in 1970 and were seen by their wingmate to bail out, but they were shortly thereafter seen by crewmen in both a rescue HH-53 and their orbiting squadron mates to be captured. Not by Pathet Lao, but the crewmen on the helo ID'd the captors as North Vietnamese. These two have also never been accounted for. Five of those on the famous BAT 21 shootdown (also an EB-66) have never been accounted for. Pilots in the area reported hearing a second beeper, but no voice contact with anyone other than Lt. Col. Iceal Hambleton, the famous survivor. Another unsolved mystery.... But the aircraft was also seen to explode in the air, and no additional chutes or beepers were detected.

Some mysteries are likely to remain unsolved. This issue may very well be one of them.
 
Many years ago I was responsible for setting up the Vietnam war newsgroup. As a part of that I came into contact with a member of the US military who had spent several years combing the backwoods of North and South Vietnam and Laos searching for MIA remains. He was satisfied that they had accounted for all but a handful of MIAs. Those were people who's remains were never found. He said that the Vietnamese were mystified by the ongoing industry around the MIAs. They were quite willing to return any remains that were discovered. Nothing was hidden from him and his team.
 
According to the Book " Inside Delta Force" by CSM Eric Haney, there were. In his book he claims they were prepping for a rescue mission in the early 80's. There are two things I am sure. 1. That CSM Haney as a member of Delta at the time probably had access to intelligence than most of us. and 2. That you don't spend money/time rehearsing for a mission unless you have actionable intelligence.
 
There's got to be a few MIAs who deserted. Maybe found a local girl to marry.
There is one known example of a US serviceman being captured and subsequently joining up with the VC

There are a few examples of former Soviet Servicemen from the Soviet Afghanistan war being found decades later still alive and living in Afghan village's today having been captured or in some cases deserting. Its estimated that over 200 remained in Afghanistan following the Soviet withdrawal.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that similar things may have happened in Vietnam but given the length of time passed and the more open and accessible nature of modern Vietnam compared to Afghanistan its unlikely that such people could still be alive without some scrap of information having come to light to indicate their survival.
 
Last edited:
According to the Book " Inside Delta Force" by CSM Eric Haney, there were. In his book he claims they were prepping for a rescue mission in the early 80's. There are two things I am sure. 1. That CSM Haney as a member of Delta at the time probably had access to intelligence than most of us. and 2. That you don't spend money/time rehearsing for a mission unless you have actionable intelligence.

That was probably the Laos mission that DIA wanted to launch, but some suspected of being sabotaged by the CIA. Delta was tapped for that mission.
 
Top