The book I read it from was from Berlin by Antony Beevor. So, if you think that the info I got it from was not academic, that is not true. As I do respect Antony Beevor for his research and his general hatred of how people have idealized the Nazis.
Was Albert Speer genuinely remorseful about his role with the Nazis?
- Thread starter DeltaEnterprise252
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I recall a book, Tales from Spandau, which said Speer's "act came within an ace of failure." The Soviet judge wanted him hanged and the American judge at first agreed but then the British and French said he should be spared because of his contrition. After sentence was pronounced Speer was laughing. "Twenty years…well after what I did they couldn't have given me less." Something like that. He was pleased to avoid the gallows but strove for years to get early release. Impressed, like everyone else, by Doenitz's lawyer, Kranzbuhler, Speer tried to get his help but without success.
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Garrison
Donor
But that does again seem to have been a matter of self interest and a desire for the German people to be able to survive. He also seems to have been very partial in the application, being far more interested in protecting assets in the west than he was in the east.
Oh, as I said, I do think there was a degree of altruism and a degree of remorse in Speer.
The question is how substantial both were, and with the man dead and leaving an... iffy paper trail, that's up to the individual.
Garrison
Donor
I've seen nothing in the record that would back up any suggestion of genuine remorse and altruism does not seem to have been in his character.
IIRC, this may have been due to von Krosigk, who (incorrectly) believed that the Western Allies were bombing Germany to prevent its industry from being captured by the Soviets, telling Speer in February 1945 that retaining Germany's industrial capacity was important as it would position Germany to re-establish friendly relations with the Western Allies following the war.
I mean, some serial killers might well be sincere about feeling sorry afterwards. If it's impossible for people feel remorse over horrible things, most of the correctional system (aside from the gallows, I guess) is pretty pointless.
That said, based on what I've seen in this thread, it doesn't look like Albert Speer was remorseful, so it's a moot point.
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It seems to me that he was more thinking "eh, I still wanna live there after the war, have some luxury and not live at a camping site."
Oh no I'm in no way saying that more then a few do feel sincerely remorseful and or find religion and seek forgiveness for their crimes.
It's just that "Finding Jesus" is a insanely common tactic for felons looking for early release, commutations of their sentences from say death to life and the like. Most people (at least in the US) tend to consider themselves Christians of one sort or another and tend to instinctively feel that others who also are Christians are more trustworthy/decent/ and the like. Part of the reason that polls in the US show Atheists as the single least trusted group in the country (I think polls literally place those specifically called "terrorists" by the poll taker as voted more trustworthy then atheists by the poll responders.). Since most people in the US consider themselves Christian and tend to more or less instinctively trust other self identified "Christians" as inherently more trustworthy then any smart serial killer will realize full well that the majority of any review board will be composed of self identified Christians. So playing the "Found Jesus" card is frankly a pretty damned smart move if said serial killer want's to avoid execution or even potentially manage to con their way into release. If said serial killers on death row are also smart they'll play on the real (and generally quite good ) aspects of Christianity like forgiveness, rebirth and the like. Basically if your trying to avoid the needle it's a damned smart tactic to try and make the people deciding your fate that you're just like them and that effectively if they don't release you early/stop your execution they are in fact not good Christians themselves.
This isn't saying religious people and or christian are not trustworthy or that many in prison (including those on death row) do not legitimately go through some process of finding faith (and even seeking forgiveness). It's more that the tactic's literal near omnipresence among say serial killers on Death Row seeking commutations and the like might just be a indication that it's a pretty frequent con. By the same token it's extraordinarily common for con artists, shady business sorts, and the like to play up their faith as a method of getting their targets to trust them. It's not saying the religious are dishonest or anything of that nature. More that dishonest con artists and the like are quite fond of playing up the religion card because they know full well that a hell of a lot of people will instinctively trust them more if they pretend to share the same beliefs.
Once again not saying Christianity is a bad thing, that religious belief is bad, or that a good number of convicts up to and including serial killers do legitimately go through religious experiences in prison or on death row. Just pointing out that people instinctively tend to trust people who are more like themselves, the majority of Americans consider themselves some sort of Christian and so any sort of smart death row inmate who seeks to avoid execution will play on that trust and certain aspects of Christianity (that are generally positive in most circumstances) as a method of conning the public and the folks who decide their fate.
It is unfortunate that people do tend to trust those like themselves more and that atheists are so distrusted simply for being atheists and people who identify as Christian (or pretty much any religion or ideology to my knowledge) tend to to a sadly large degree just kind of automatically trust those who profess the same beliefs more just because they claim to have the same beliefs.
Oh, I certainly agree that there are probably a lot of insincere "conversions" in prison, and prior thereto. Like you, I think these things need to be examined on a case by case basis.
Sounds like we agree then. Just always found it annoying how many shady semi con artist contractors, convicts facing death or long sentences, and the like play the " Born again" or the like card and how often it works while I an atheist who always trys to be respectful of peoples religious beliefs am in polls ranked automatically ranked lower then terrorists or child molesters if I recall correctly simply because I will not lie and pretend to believe in something I don't.
And I find the " born again" tactic by so many death row inmates ( and how frequently it works in building some public support for them outside the prison in the general public) to be particularly offensive.
It's an interesting question. In the abstract, I suppose I would take it as a good sign if a guy who murdered people becomes sincerely convinced that an all-powerful being is going to punish him if he does it again.
Honestly it's generally just easier to say you're an agnostic. It's basically the same thing as weak atheism "It's impossible to prove (but I don't think it's particularly likely)" but people don't assume you're some kind of obnoxious redditor at best or psychopath at worst.
It's still bullshit, atheism is perfectly good as a lack of religious belief and it shouldn't be stigmatized, but it is worth nothing that while the term should be reclaimed, there's been literal thousands of years of atheism being demonized around the world.
Some people hear "atheist" and their brain just corrects to "adolator" or "enemy of God". At the very least, it feels like a personal attack, like, "who are you to say that my God isn't real?"
So, I mean, feel free to use the term "atheist", it's a good term, it's just that people at best can take it as an attack and at worst will assume that you're devilspawn, depending on the person.
I just generally say I'm Jewish. Which is accurate. I was raised a reconstructionist (which is essentially Jewish Unitarianism or "Judaism for Atheism" in the sense that it kind of focuses on the good aspects of the Jewish faith like say charity and focusing on ethnic/cultural aspects of Judaism. Though honestly I've fallen away from even that. Haven't been in a temple in years. I consider myself a Jew ethnically and culturally (though personally I think that unless your the rare convert you don't have a choice about being a Jew since ultimately the Jew haters will despise you and if possible hunt you like an animal regardless if you have absolutely no belief in the religious aspects or cultural aspects and that this has been the case for literal generations for your family.) but not religiously. And in the US positive stereotypes mean that even a lot of the less tolerant sort of Christiains will kind of like you.
One of the few cases where I will with complete strangers just openly state I am an atheist is in AA and even their because for some reason so many religious folks seem to take someone identifying as an atheist as for whatever reason insulting their own religious beliefs I will generally only do so when openly asked. I don't pretend to believe in god in a setting where honesty is supposed to be vital. Whenever someone kind of goes insistent on me and starts saying/demanding I need to find god I'll do my best to honestly, politely, and respectfully explain that I do not personally believe in god and will not pretend to do so if honesty is so vital. I explain that I still believe there are many great and beneficial aspects to religious beliefs and that many of the best folks I've ever met are devout believers. I explain that I have no desire whatsoever in nay form to "convert" anyone in anyway in terms of turning them into atheists. That if their beliefs help them especially help them in terms of maintaining their own sobriety. If their beliefs aid them and lead them to live a good life then I am all the more happy for them. But I will not lie in these circumstances and would personally feel it to be insulting not just to the person I was talking to but the group and the program at large. When it comes time for the Serenity prayer I quietly bow my head and hold hands but do not speak the prayer myself but do my best to be respectful. And since it's a Christian prayer I will then afterwards quietly to myself utter a short Hebrew prayer less out of any religious belief and more just an expression of identity.
I've found many who will be somewhat tolerant if frequently awkward but more then a few get insistent or resentful seemingly pissed off that I've done what's supposed to be impossible and quit drinking and have stayed dry without finding a higher power.
But that's just that. I do my best to be as respectful as possible but it can and does get awkward.
Fair.
But seems a shame that by and large they only seem to do so after they've already been caught and convicted and spend 23.5 hours a day in a concrete box with no ability to kill anyone.
But from what I understand serial killing is something like a very intense addiction but worse. Serial killers once they start can theoretically stop for period of time or at least reduce the frequency of their victims (like one killer who only killed something like 3 women over the four years he was married to a woman vs his "normal" average of something like a dozen a year. But once that relationship resulted in divorce he went right back at it.
To my knowledge it's literally impossible to cure or even to voluntarily stop permanently. Only really ends when they get caught and imprisoned/executed, die of something else, or become disabled to the point where they are no longer physically capable of pursuing their addiction.
Possibly true; I haven't researched the long term prospects for rehabilitation among serial killers.