War of the Pyrenees continued

I'm not sure, but probably Prussia will stay in the Coalition if Spain does.
This means a much more difficult situation for France, and, likely, a much less divided group of Central European Powers if (and that's not sure, but still likely) Napoleonic wars still happen.
My point is that Iberian states were unable to resist France if left alone in 1795 and immediately afterwards, but I'd accept confutation if someone here knows better.
Actually they would likely have been subjugated by France in OTL after 1808 (at a very high cost), without British support, and that British support was not such a small effort. IIRC, Wellington had more than 40.000 English troops under him when he approached the French frontier in 1813.

I think we agree in one point. France was military superior to Spain and Portugal, and they had a much more competent leadership, and much more competent NCO's thanks to their meritocratic system. So, with enough commitment, they could have made whatever they wanted. My doubts, however, are about wether France was able of this commitment in 1795. If we took 1808 as a mirror, with the Grande Armée over the terrain, they faced several difficulties regarding logistics, plus they were forced to divert a good chunk of men only to keep order, or something that seemed order, in Iberia. Of course, Wellington's army was important. But, anyway, what impedes another british intervention in OTL? Thus, in my opinion, it would be interesting to know how many french there were over the terrain in the different fronts in 1795, and how many men and means had the ensemble of the french forces in order to know wether the iberian task was possible or not before being bugged in a logistical nightmare through endless sierras and bad roads and a shortage of manpower before reaching Andalusia or even Madrid. Even more if Prussia is still in the fight and the french are still commited in the eastern bank of the Rhin. That's just my point.

I was thinking that Godoy becomes unpopular enough that the Spanish would be happy to see him kicked out by the French who install some popular liberal figure like Floridablanca or Aranda. But Aranda hadn't been around that long and I think Floridablanca might object...

Yes, kicking out Godoy would score points to whoever does it, though we have also take in consideration that in 1795, though unpopular, he hasn't reached still is peak of unpopularity. To substitute him, Saavedra, like in OTL, seems a likely option, he had pro-french inclinations and wasn't disliked by the Directory. OTOH, probably Urquijo would be the best option over the paper (as you say Aranda wasn't around and probably wasn't interested in the responsability). Urquijo, who actually also substituted Godoy in OTL after Saavedra get ill, was an Aranda protegé, enlighted and translator of Voltaire. "Unfortunatelly" he had been ambassador in London, and the french were a bit suspicious about him, and that probably precipited his fall in OTL. Perhaps in different circumstances those susceptibilities about him can be avoided or overlooked. And of course we have Jovellanos, enlighted, though hardly liberal in the political sense the term was taking at the time, but quite popular, an able man and without much problems with the french ascendancy (until 1808, of course).

Cheers.
 
I think we agree in one point. France was military superior to Spain and Portugal, and they had a much more competent leadership, and much more competent NCO's thanks to their meritocratic system. So, with enough commitment, they could have made whatever they wanted. My doubts, however, are about wether France was able of this commitment in 1795. If we took 1808 as a mirror, with the Grande Armée over the terrain, they faced several difficulties regarding logistics, plus they were forced to divert a good chunk of men only to keep order, or something that seemed order, in Iberia. Of course, Wellington's army was important. But, anyway, what impedes another british intervention in OTL? Thus, in my opinion, it would be interesting to know how many french there were over the terrain in the different fronts in 1795, and how many men and means had the ensemble of the french forces in order to know wether the iberian task was possible or not before being bugged in a logistical nightmare through endless sierras and bad roads and a shortage of manpower before reaching Andalusia or even Madrid. Even more if Prussia is still in the fight and the french are still commited in the eastern bank of the Rhin. That's just my point.

I've tried my best to dig up some statistics and here was the best that I could come up with.

By 1797 Spain had a population of 105,410 while France had a population of around 28,000,000 in 1792 which increased to around 29,361,000 by 1801. The French Revolutionary Army had increased around 645,000 men from an unknown number by mid 1793 but had a total of 1,500,000 men under arms by September 1794. The size of the Spanish Army remains unknown.

Hope that helps.
 

Lusitania

Donor
I've tried my best to dig up some statistics and here was the best that I could come up with.

By 1797 Spain had a population of 105,410 while France had a population of around 28,000,000 in 1792 which increased to around 29,361,000 by 1801.

I believe their population was more in the neigbourhood of 12 million
 
Top