Undecided 2000 US presidential election

tom · Sep 11, 2011

Without ASBs, is it possible to get to Inaugeration Day 2001 without knowing if Bush or Gore won? Perhaps a Supreme Court justice killed in an accident, so the "vote" is 4-4? Or an exact tie, or Gore winning, in the Florida recount? A few faithless electors?
And if this did happen, what would result? Strom Thurmond for president? A coin toss?

Derek Jackson · Sep 11, 2011

well of course if the house has not elected a President the Senate elect a Vice Presidnet from the top two one senator one vote with the outgoing vp having a casting vote

The clever thing would be for Gore to get Democrat electors to choose him as both presdient and Vice President. He votes himself to be acting President, unlessa Republcians get 26 house delegations then he is in charge

rule_them_all · Sep 11, 2011

I guess the Speaker of the House becomes Pres... there is really no precedent so it would have to be established.

Chengar Qordath · Sep 11, 2011

rule_them_all said:
I guess the Speaker of the House becomes Pres... there is really no precedent so it would have to be established.

More likely, the Speaker would just become the Acting President until the election got sorted out, but it's entirely possible that could become a legal tangle that takes a long time to resolve.

January First-of-May · Sep 11, 2011

tom said:
Without ASBs, is it possible to get to Inaugeration Day 2001 without knowing if Bush or Gore won? Perhaps a Supreme Court justice killed in an accident, so the "vote" is 4-4? Or an exact tie, or Gore winning, in the Florida recount? A few faithless electors?
And if this did happen, what would result? Strom Thurmond for president? A coin toss?

What almost certainly won't result is Strom Thurmond for president (the Senate is tied, so without a VP there doesn't appear to be a PPT in the Senate; okay, they might elect Thurmond because he's the more senior of the two candidates, but that doesn't change the fact that the Speaker is before the PPT in line, and there don't appear to be any problems with selecting the Speaker).
Coincidentally, IIRC, the unofficial recount results (under the most likely rules) were Gore by 3 (that's, three votes). And if the recount follows through for whatever reason (especially if the POD is in Bush v. Gore), it pretty much starts over on Dec 12... Now, Florida is a huge state, so they aren't likely to finish before early January, and with a single-digit margin they're going to re-check and re-re-check for another several weeks. Here, we have it - the recount still going on by January 20...
"A few faithless electors" could indeed complicate the thing, but only if Bush wins Florida. Coincidentally, as Gore didn't win his home state of Tennessee, a vote of Gore/Gore for Democratic electors appears to be completely legal, though probably weird and might still be challenged in courts (e.g. what if Gore does indeed get elected both as President and VP?)

Lord Grattan · Sep 11, 2011

tom said:
Without ASBs, is it possible to get to Inaugeration Day 2001 without knowing if Bush or Gore won? Perhaps a Supreme Court justice killed in an accident, so the "vote" is 4-4? Or an exact tie, or Gore winning, in the Florida recount? A few faithless electors?
And if this did happen, what would result? Strom Thurmond for president? A coin toss?

In the case of a tie, the Florida Supreme Court's decision would have stood.

colonel · Sep 11, 2011

The Senate would not be tied as the Congress takes office on January 3rd (I think in 2001 it was Jan. 4th), & since the inaguration is the 20th Gore would still be VP & would still break ties - so I guess that would be VP Lieberman. The GOP controlled more than 26 House delegations in 2001 so Bush would be President, but if they were deadlocked Lieberman would be acting President until it was sorrted out.

tiggerfan · Sep 11, 2011

Regardless of what happened with the courts, if there was not a clear majority of EV's on 6 January then the House votes.

Whoever controls 26 House delegations elects the President.

The Senate elects the VP.

This of course could have resulted in interesting debates on whether Lieberman could vote for himself and Gore break the tie for Lieberman.

Also could have resulted in challenges to close Senate races

In the House, the GOP had 26 delegations so likely picks Bush, though again could have challenges to close races.

If no President or VP we get acting President Hastert, and a vacancy in the IL delegation (tossing it from 50/50 to D)

Lord Grattan · Sep 11, 2011

Congress may end up voting Bush as POTUS and Lieberman as VPOTUS.

Bulletsfromthegrassyknoll · Sep 11, 2011

tom said:
Without ASBs, is it possible to get to Inaugeration Day 2001 without knowing if Bush or Gore won? Perhaps a Supreme Court justice killed in an accident, so the "vote" is 4-4? Or an exact tie, or Gore winning, in the Florida recount? A few faithless electors?
And if this did happen, what would result? Strom Thurmond for president? A coin toss?

The vote wasn't whether who won, it was whether the recount could be stopped. So with a drawn court, the Florida state court's ruling would stand, meaning the recounts would continue.

Pesterfield · Sep 11, 2011

Is there any chance that those in charge of the recounting just give up and tell Florida to hold a new election?

colonel · Sep 11, 2011

Who knows what the Florida Supreme court would do. The legislature & Governorship were Republican - they could have theoretically just passed a bill designating the electors. In that case any member of the House or Senate could object to recognizingthe votes. If the electoral votes are not recognized then it again goes to the HR for POTUS & Senate for VPOTOS. If Florida ends up with competing sets of electors then perhaps they do a commission like 1877.

Grimm Reaper · Sep 11, 2011

The problem is that if the House declares Bush to have won in Florida while the Senate declares Gore to have won then the Constitution authorizes the governor of Florida to break the tie.

Jeb Bush picks the president.

January First-of-May · Sep 11, 2011

Grimm Reaper said:
The problem is that if the House declares Bush to have won in Florida while the Senate declares Gore to have won then the Constitution authorizes the governor of Florida to break the tie.

Jeb Bush picks the president.

Where. The. Triangular. Heck. Is. That. From?

(To start with, it's not what happened in 1876-77.)

tiggerfan · Sep 11, 2011

Grimm Reaper said:
The problem is that if the House declares Bush to have won in Florida while the Senate declares Gore to have won then the Constitution authorizes the governor of Florida to break the tie.

Jeb Bush picks the president.

Not exactly.

If there is no clear winner on 6 January when the count the electoral votes (IE no Florida vote) then the House picks the President only and the Senate picks the VP only.

The House probably elects Bush.

The Senate could elect Liberman but I could see him not voting and allowing Cheney to go in since Bush is VP. Or the Senate elects him.

That is the rule, per the Constitution.

January First-of-May · Sep 11, 2011

tiggerfan said:
Not exactly.

If there is no clear winner on 6 January when the count the electoral votes (IE no Florida vote) then the House picks the President only and the Senate picks the VP only.

The House probably elects Bush.

The Senate could elect Liberman but I could see him not voting and allowing Cheney to go in since Bush is VP. Or the Senate elects him.

That is the rule, per the Constitution.

What if the Florida vote arrives soon after (e.g. on Jan 7 or 8)? Does it get counted - and what if it's for Gore?

EDIT: Looked up the FL&G Jan 6 meeting (the closest equivalent I could find). Apparently, the president will be decided in a Senate debate (yeah, it's supposed to be debate not vote, as far as I was able to tell). Given that the Senate is tied, it's going to work as a neutral-ish commission, and IMHO the result would be "wait for the Florida results, and set up Hastert if they don't arrive by Jan 20".
That's only IMHO (and AFAICT), though.

EDIT 2:
Oh, Grimm Reaper, that's what you meant...

Still, it's debate, and the House only has a slim Republican majority. A "wait for the Florida results" conclusion is still likely for both houses (in which case the Governor doesn't get anything).

colonel · Sep 11, 2011

Remember in voting for POTUS each state delegation gets only one vote - no partial voting. So it is 26 out of 50 not 218 out of 435. If a state is split they do not vote. They pick from the top three in the electoral count - so unless an elector votes for someone othr than Bush or Gore (one Gore elector did vote for someone else - I forget who), the HR keeps voting until one of them has 26.
Each individual Senator gets one vote for VP.

John Farson · Sep 11, 2011

tom said:
Without ASBs, is it possible to get to Inaugeration Day 2001 without knowing if Bush or Gore won? Perhaps a Supreme Court justice killed in an accident, so the "vote" is 4-4? Or an exact tie, or Gore winning, in the Florida recount? A few faithless electors?
And if this did happen, what would result? Strom Thurmond for president? A coin toss?

Civil War. Bluecoats vs. Greycoats, round 2. Fight!

Penelope · Sep 11, 2011

Someone would capitulate before Inauguration Day.

tiggerfan · Sep 11, 2011

The Jan 6th date is set by law, if a state does not send in votes by that day they don't count, which is part of the reason for the disputes over how fast to count. If someone wants to challenge the votes of a particular state the two houses each debate the issue and if BOTH vote to reject the votes then they are rejected, but if they split the votes stand.

The rules that apply if there is no majority is in the Constitution and not subject to change.

House votes for President, one vote per state. In 2001 the GOP had control of 26 delegations so they would probably have voted to elect Bush, though there is always the debate of do you vote your party or with who your district supported.

Senate votes for VP, one vote per Senator. The Senate was tied, so in theory the VP vote would be in which case Gore could vote for Joe L.

The Senate does elect it's own President, called the President Pro Tempore, but that is not the President of the US.

January First-of-May said:
What if the Florida vote arrives soon after (e.g. on Jan 7 or 8)? Does it get counted - and what if it's for Gore?

EDIT: Looked up the FL&G Jan 6 meeting (the closest equivalent I could find). Apparently, the president will be decided in a Senate debate (yeah, it's supposed to be debate not vote, as far as I was able to tell). Given that the Senate is tied, it's going to work as a neutral-ish commission, and IMHO the result would be "wait for the Florida results, and set up Hastert if they don't arrive by Jan 20".
That's only IMHO (and AFAICT), though.

EDIT 2:
Oh, Grimm Reaper, that's what you meant...
Still, it's debate, and the House only has a slim Republican majority. A "wait for the Florida results" conclusion is still likely for both houses (in which case the Governor doesn't get anything).