Is it somehow possible to have UK in Axis and France in Commintern? Italy is democratic and allied with USA. Who would win WWII Axis (Germany, UK, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkey, Iran, part of India, South Africa, maybe Japan) vs Comintern (SU, France and maybe somebody else) and Allies (USA, Canada, Italy, Romania, Greece, Republic of Spain (maybe better in commintern), Norway, Low countries, Poland, Denmark...)? WWII start in 1939 and development of technology is like in OTL.
UK in axis, France in commintern
- Thread starter Serbian leopard
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CanadianGoose
Banned
I suppose that more decisive leftist actions by Blum could bring regime change in France, although chances are pretty slim. However, I somehow doubt that Socialist-run France and Spain (revolution of 1936 would likely butterfly Franco's victory away) would lead to WWII in it's OTL shape. To begin with, Socialist France isn't about to sign Munich, so WWII TL goes off track at very early stage. Later on, British Empire DoWing Nazi over Poland together with "reds" is ASB. So, British Empire is likely to stay out of war, and USA aren't likely to get in too.
Why are Italy and Romania in with the allies anyways. They should be in the Axis.
And in the case of a Mosley regime in the UK and a Socialist France, it's probably all the more likely the US is gonna sit this one out and let the Fascists and Communists duke it out.
Even if Pearl is bombed by Japan on schedule, they'd likely just fight the Pacfic war. Perhaps more intervention in China toward the KMT.
And in the case of a Mosley regime in the UK and a Socialist France, it's probably all the more likely the US is gonna sit this one out and let the Fascists and Communists duke it out.
Even if Pearl is bombed by Japan on schedule, they'd likely just fight the Pacfic war. Perhaps more intervention in China toward the KMT.
CanadianGoose
Banned
Yes, "Sovetization" of france would inevitably lead to "Finlandization" of Czechoslovakia and this, in turn, would bring Poland and Hungary to Axis camp, with Romania joining Axis later.
I don’t see it as being too far fetched for France to go communist which likely would be more than enough to push the UK and Germany together. The problem I have is I don’t see how you can really get a viable third block without a heavy hitter in Europe and or a radically different USA that’s willing to garrison troops overseas. At best I think you could end up with a Non-Aligned movement (which likely doesn’t include Italy) which has no real teeth and probably falls apart at the first sign of trouble. More likely you’d end up with two camps the Communists and The Anti-Communists and then everybody else who’s just hoping to not be noticed by either side. Here is how I see the sides lining up.
Axis – Germany/UK/Italy/Japan/Romania
Comintern – Soviet Union/France/Rep Spain
Pro Neutrality – Benelux/Scandinavia/USA/Turkey
The rest of the Balkan nations would probably join up either based on whose winning or who makes the best offer. Poland is probably screwed here no matter what unless they can cut a deal with Germany.
Axis – Germany/UK/Italy/Japan/Romania
Comintern – Soviet Union/France/Rep Spain
Pro Neutrality – Benelux/Scandinavia/USA/Turkey
The rest of the Balkan nations would probably join up either based on whose winning or who makes the best offer. Poland is probably screwed here no matter what unless they can cut a deal with Germany.
The pro-Soviet Communists in France didn't have near enough support to lead a revolution that ends in France joining the Cominterm: Blum's brand of Socialism was very much a French movement, like the one led by Jaurés, and he was both an anti-fascist and distrusted the Soviets, specifically Stalin.
Essentially, no matter how successful France's socialists are, you won't get France in the Cominterm, because French socialism split with Russian communism at the (I think) 2nd International, and the pro-soviets weren't the biggest leftist party.
It's far more likely that France goes fascist instead, for example, if the fascist rally on Feb. 16th 1936 had actually attacked the Parliament and seized power, but even then France would be with the "Allies" because they'd never join Hitler's Germany (They might, in any case, form their own axis with Italy and Franco's Spain... and I'm not taking into account any butterflies here, because if anything the loss of a socialist France only HELPS Franco).
Essentially, no matter how successful France's socialists are, you won't get France in the Cominterm, because French socialism split with Russian communism at the (I think) 2nd International, and the pro-soviets weren't the biggest leftist party.
It's far more likely that France goes fascist instead, for example, if the fascist rally on Feb. 16th 1936 had actually attacked the Parliament and seized power, but even then France would be with the "Allies" because they'd never join Hitler's Germany (They might, in any case, form their own axis with Italy and Franco's Spain... and I'm not taking into account any butterflies here, because if anything the loss of a socialist France only HELPS Franco).
bernard patton
Banned
Why does Italy have to be democratic to be allied to the USA?
Also why would Canada be opposing the UK? And only part of India on the British side?
Also why would Canada be opposing the UK? And only part of India on the British side?
What if we assume a Trotskite SU? Would a Republican Spain & Socialist France be more likely allies there?
A more moderate USSR might in fact lead to a more united International, but even then I find it unlikely.