Two Great Turkish Empires V 1.0

Mujahid786

Banned
1443: During the Crusade of Varna, Karamanid Ibrahem Bey does not march against Ankara and Kutayha, and stays neutral. He begins to look south, where the declining power of the Mamluke state, begins an expansion of the Karamanids south. They capture Damascus, after a peace treaty with the Ottomans.

1453: When the Ottomans seige Constantinople, Karamanid bey, sends a token force. Wanting favourable relations with their powerful neighbour. In the south, the Mamluke state begins to collapse, from Karamanid incursions, and internal problems. The Karamanids quickly sweep south, taking Palestine and Jordan.

1460: The Karamanids begin to implement gunpowder, much as the Ottomans. Janissary like corps are created, though they are not of Christian converts.


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by 1470, The Ottomans, and the Karamanids, begin to swallow up the remaining Tukish Belik States. The Ottomans, after a Mamluke envoy accidently offends the Sultan, send an army to take Egypt. They conquer it with ease, taking the Caliph to Istanbul, and bestowing the title upon themselves. The Karamanids soon push into Egypt, expelling the Ottomans.

1478: The Ottomans, deprived of the Middle-East, due to the increasing strengths of the Karamanids, devote most of their efforts to Europe, instead of Iran and the Middle East. The Karamanids take the Hejaz, and claim the titles of Servants of the Two Holy Shrines.

By 1500s: The Ottomans have taken most of the Southern Balkans. A Strong Hungarian State remains, though most Serblands have submitted.

1515: The Ottomans take Mosul and northern Iraq, while the Karamanids quicky attack east, taking Baghdad from the Persians, and Kuwait submits.

1517: By now, both the powers see themselves as the forerunners of Islam. The Ottomans claim the Caliphate, while so do the Karamanids. A small war is fought in Anatolia, though a peace traty reverts all borders.

1520: The Hungarians which are losing to the Ottomans, piecemeal, strike a deal with Iran and the Karamanids, to make a mutual attack. The Karamanids suceed in taking Ankara from the Ottomans, and the Ottomans are forced to surrender Mosul to Iran, and Ankara to Karamans.

by 1530: Both Powers are begining to vie for control of the Mediterannean. They remain hated enemies, though a few wars are fought together in the name of Islam against Venice.

1535: The Karamanids expand into Libya, and south to Sudan, begining a lucrative slave trade, while the Ottomans take Hungaria, and lay seige to Vienna, but lose.

1536: The Karamanids and Ottomans make an alliance against the increasing power of the Safavi state. A costly war is fought where, Iran is forced to cede Mosul back to Ottomans and pay tribute to Karamanids.

by 1550: An Alliance of Spain, Venice, Knights of St.John and Rhodes fight a Karamanid and Ottoman fleet, in a Lepanto-style battle, where the Ottomans and Karamans succeed, Karamanids and Ottomans divide Cyprus. This era is seen with an increasing collaboration of the two Sunni Islamic Powers against Shia Iran and Christian west.
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Due to the Karamanid control of the Levant, the Ottoman assault on Egypt would have to come primarily via sea. It might be better to have the Karamanids take Egypt simply by continuously hammering the Mamelukes down, a the Karamanids have already defeated the Mamelukes once before and the Mamelukes might still continue with suicidal ideas like refusing to use firearms because they're "dishonorable" or something.

How exactly do the Karamanids implement a Janissary corps of their own in TTL if they don't recruit them from the local Christians?

If the goal is for the sultan to have an armed force independent of the Turkish nobility loyal solely to himself, it might be a better idea for him to try to implement an early form of the levee-en-masse recruited from the commoners.

What's with the weird borders in Africa? I would think if the Karamanids controlled all of Egypt, they might extend their control directly south instead of this roundabout way. If their power in the far south is based on trading enclaves on the Red Sea, I don't think it would extend that far inland.

Overall, an interesting idea. Definitely quite original. Keep it up.
 

Mujahid786

Banned
Due to the Karamanid control of the Levant, the Ottoman assault on Egypt would have to come primarily via sea. It might be better to have the Karamanids take Egypt simply by continuously hammering the Mamelukes down, a the Karamanids have already defeated the Mamelukes once before and the Mamelukes might still continue with suicidal ideas like refusing to use firearms because they're "dishonorable" or something.

How exactly do the Karamanids implement a Janissary corps of their own in TTL if they don't recruit them from the local Christians?

If the goal is for the sultan to have an armed force independent of the Turkish nobility loyal solely to himself, it might be a better idea for him to try to implement an early form of the levee-en-masse recruited from the commoners.

What's with the weird borders in Africa? I would think if the Karamanids controlled all of Egypt, they might extend their control directly south instead of this roundabout way. If their power in the far south is based on trading enclaves on the Red Sea, I don't think it would extend that far inland.

Overall, an interesting idea. Definitely quite original. Keep it up.

1) The assault is by the sea, but due to lack of large amounts of Ottoman soldiers, after a few years the Karamanids take Egypt from the Ottomans.

2)The janissary corps are recruited mainly from the locals, and go through vigorous training to prove their loyalty, though many are non-Turk Shiites and Jews.

3)I messed up the map, I'll fix it up.
 

Mujahid786

Banned
[FONT=&quot]1552: The Karamanids and the Ottomans, continue expanding their empires. Karamanis armies march deep into Yemen, and Hadhramaut. While the Ottomans attack the Caucasus and take most of it.

1553: An Ottoman backed rebellion by the Mamlukes in Egypt is supressed with much blood. Karamanid Bey Muhammad Bayezid II invites all the Mamlukes to Cairo for peace talks, and slaughters them all, much like Muhammad Ali did in OTL. A few of them escape, setting up a mini-state in the Sudan, with the help of the Christian south. This state plagues Karamanid state for a long time.

1553: The Karamanids revoke the treaty of friendship with the Ottomans and fight them in Iraq, Cyprus and Anatolia. A previous war with European powers, also gets mixed in this conflict, with France, Ottoman Empire and Venice fighting Habsburg Spain, Habsburg Austria and the Karamanids. The Habsburg side wins decisively when, Karamanid army, supported by Spanish NAvy nears Istanbul. The Sultan sues for peace, and with one of the major players in the alliance gone, the Anti-Habsburg party falls apart. The Ottomans are forced to cede all of Cyprus to the Karamanids, Hungary and Transylvania to Habsburg Austria.

1555: A new sultan comes to power, named Bayezid III. He vies for Ottoman Turkey's lost glory. An alliance of Iran and Otoman Empire attack the Karamanids and Safavid Iran caputres Baghdad and most of Oman from Karamanids.

by 1570: The power between Karamanids and Turkey remains. A major peace treaty is signed between the two powers. Giving Ottomans some breathing room in their heartland, and they begin to focus on Retaking Hungary from Austria. While the Karamanids focus on North Africa, and Iran.

1572: After a quick war, the Ottomans, defeat the Austrians, overrunning Hungary. The Ottoman Vassals, of the Crimean Khanate, plague the Tsardom of Moscow, and the Polish Lithunian Commonwealth. The Karamanids, become the dominant power in the Red Sea, clashing with the Portugeese, who have trade interests in the area. In the Persian gulf, the Iranians and the Karamanids often ally against the Portugeese there as well.

1575: Karamanid armies, carry, the banner deep into Tunis and Algiers. The local beys, pay allegiance to the Ottoman Caliph, to protect them. The beys know that, they are far from the Ottoman power base, and will be left to their own devices, maintaining a de facto independence. The Ottomans, begin a new front in Anatolia, diverging Karamanid armies from North Africa. a short battle leaves the
Karamanid army, battered. This leaves the Ottomans a dominant power in Asia Minor.

1576: The European powers, colonizing the new world, has brought lots of riches to the christian powers, giving them a decisive adge over the Karamanids. The Karamanid Sultan, Ibrahem Muhammad Bayezid II, is anxious to begin colonizing new lands in the name of islam. Needing an outlet to the Antlantic, a Karamanid army, makes a trechorous march across the Saharah, to attack the Kingdom of Morocco. 50 000 Karamanid soldiers, gain the support of local berber tribes, bolstering their numbers. The modern weapons and tactics of the Karamanids, decisively defeat the Moroccans, and annex their kingdom. In order to get the locals to support them they, leave the King Hussain, as a viceroy. And preach their message of Islamic brotherhood, and equality between berebrs (the opressed) and the Arabs.

1578: A massive fleet is being built in the new shipyards of Rabat, armed with the latest weaponry and manned by the bravest and strongest soldiers. In the Balkans, A league of Russia, Polish Lithunian Commonwealth, Austria and Prussia, are defeated by an Ottoman Army, paving way for a future seige of Vienna.


1578: The fleet is completed, and sets sail, with the banner of Islam. the fleet makes it to the carribean, after a long journey, avoiding privateers, and storms, a battered Karamanid fleet makes it to the carribbean, only to be maet by a spanish armada. The aramda quickly destroys the tired and hungry fleet.


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