Two Deaths at Bosworth
- Thread starter VVD0D95
- Start date
VVD0D95
Banned
Alrighty so 1489, meaning if they have a baby born nine months after the choices of bride are limited and Catherine of Aragon is definitely out as a bride one imagines
So if Elizabeth of York and Edward, Earl of Warwick were to have a son - say one called Edward, Prince of Wales (b. 1490) (the most likely name) then the brides considered would probably be: Marguerite of Angouleme (b. 1492), Claude of France (b. 1499) or Eleanor of Austria (b. 1498). Personally, I think Marguerite of Angouleme would be the most practical as there is only a two year age gap and will give them valuable French connections.
Ok, so would it be plausible for John de la Pole to set his wife aside for Elizabeth of York, or would Elizabeth be stuffed in a nunnery in the 'John II' scenario?
VVD0D95
Banned
If it came down to it I tbink they could get an annulment and Elizabeth could marry John
Neither of that... Elizabeth will simply need to be carefully married off
No, she will not. John’s wife is her own cousin so that is not a solution...
Marguerite is not enough high-ranking for him, Claude is impossible plus they would likely need/wish legitimate Lancastrian blood so Eleanor of Austria is the best choice (Catherine of Aragon is five years older than him so a match with her would be still acceptable, specially if young Edward has no brother).
Elizabeth of York is cousins with more than half the nobility in England. I hardly see why them being cousins makes John de la Pole unable to annul his marriage to his wife.
How is Claude of France impossible? By the 1510s Anne of Brittany was still enduring pregnancies, so it was possible that they may have a son and therefore they would, most likely, not be overly concerned with marrying Claude to Francis yet. Which if Claude married Edward, Prince of Wales they would simply marry Renee to Francis instead. I agree that Marguerite is not overly high ranking but I suppose it depends on how many heirs Elizabeth and Warwick have as to how long they can wait for an heir to the throne. If Elizabeth and Warwick only have one, maybe two, sons then they would probably want a similarly aged bride - if they had, say, four, then I suppose it wouldn't matter if he had to wait around a decade.
How quickly he can get an annulment done and be safely wedded to Elizabeth of York, in the febrile and chaotic post-Bosworth environment, might be an issue, though.
And why should anyone want him? Then men who have just defeated and killed Richard III aren't going to turn to his designated heir. If they see him as a serious contender they are more likely to behead him att he first opportunity
sid
Considered by whom?
Post-Bosworth he was the "candidate" of some Ricardian holdouts who didn't accept the Lancaster-York marriage as a final settlement. Is there any reason to suppose that the winners at Bosworth would have any particular reason to favour him. Afaics they'd be looking for an unmarried adult male Lancastrian, and the supply of those was limited. And lt would be best if he were right there on the spot.
Both Stanleys were still Yorkist, just anti Ricardian. They were considered part of the winners of Bosworth. The whole marriage of Elizabeth to Henry was aimed to resolve the succession dispute between the Yorkists and Lancastrians as it joined the lines.
Choosing an unlanded untitled bastard isn't going to resolve that, it'll be seen as an insult to the Yorkists. And it's storing up a rebellion by whoever marries the Dowager Duchess of Buckingham in favour of her son - she's Catherine nee Wodeville btw.
Jasper is a better match for Elizabeth and he has no claim to the Lancastrian succession.
In my view Jasper has the choice of choosing Stafford or abandoning the Lancastrian cause altogether.
Yeah, as I've said upthread, Lincoln's ties to his uncle are likely to be a liability. I was just saying that if one were going to go down the route of a Lincoln-Elizabeth match and putting them on the throne, the time lag in gaining an annulment, and the chaotic situation in England, should be taken into account- I didn't say this was the likeliest scenario.
VVD0D95
Banned
One could always conveniently have Lincoln’s wife die during said battle due to illness etc 😛
I still think that Warwick is the most likely choice for King. Charles Beaufort is a bastard from a bastard line (double whammy) who the nobles would never accept while there are legitimate heirs closer to the throne; John de la Pole inheriting would make all of the York sisters and their heirs a danger, even if he marries Elizabeth of York there’s still Warwick to deal with, and he’d be hard pressed to claim the throne in his own right (if not by conquest) as there’s about eight people in front of him and Elizabeth of York could not inherit on her own due to the whole Matilda scenario.
Which makes for an interesting dynamic, with Liz potentially being the leading partner in their relationship, at least initially.
Things could be tense between Warwick and the wider Woodville clan, though, if their antipathy for his father and grandfather carries over.
VVD0D95
Banned
Oh a hundred percent, be interesting to see who wears the pants in their relationship once he grows up.
And definitely, which will make it interesting to see who Elizabeth sides with, her husband or her wider family.
Presumably focusing on the interests of her children is the safest option.