Two Deaths at Bosworth

Who becomes King?


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In the event that both Richard III and Henry Tudor die at the Battle of Bosworth, who do you think would become the next King?
This came close to happening IRL, as Richard III charged Duke Henry and actually managed to kill one of his bodyguards before being brought down by Sir Rhys Ap Thomas...
 
This came close to happening IRL, as Richard III charged Duke Henry and actually managed to kill one of his bodyguards before being brought down by Sir Rhys Ap Thomas...
Indeed he did, if he'd killed Thomas and then killed Henry, but then been brought down, things would get very messy
 
Indeed he did, if he'd killed Thomas and then killed Henry, but then been brought down, things would get very messy
They most certainly would have.

As an aside, even contemporary chroniclers praise Richard III for the manful way he carried himself at Bosworth.

Here's how it might have happened:

King Richard III having espied Duke Henry Tudor on the battlefield, leads a cavalry charge against the Duke and his bodyguards.

Sir Rhys ap Thomas, seeing the threat, moves to interpose himself between his Duke and Richard III.

Result, Thomas gets the King's lance in his guts for his trouble.

The King's lance breaks (or gets lodged in Thomas' body), so Richard has to get it done by drawing his sword. Both the King and the Duke were highly-skilled warriors, so that throw-down would have been something to see.

As Richard's cavalry escort engages Duke Henry's bodyguards, a fortunate swordstroke against Henry's helmet fractures the Duke's skull and kills him instantly. The king's sword breaks and before he has a chance to draw a secondary weapon, one of Henry's bodyguards manages to bash him in the cranium with a halberd.
 
They most certainly would have.

As an aside, even contemporary chroniclers praise Richard III for the manful way he carried himself at Bosworth.

Here's how it might have happened:

King Richard III having espied Duke Henry Tudor on the battlefield, leads a cavalry charge against the Duke and his bodyguards.

Sir Rhys ap Thomas, seeing the threat, moves to interpose himself between his Duke and Richard III.

Result, Thomas gets the King's lance in his guts for his trouble.

The King's lance breaks (or gets lodged in Thomas' body), so Richard has to get it done by drawing his sword. Both the King and the Duke were highly-skilled warriors, so that throw-down would have been something to see.

As Richard's cavalry escort engages Duke Henry's bodyguards, a fortunate swordstroke against Henry's helmet fractures the Duke's skull and kills him instantly. The king's sword breaks and before he has a chance to draw a secondary weapon, one of Henry's bodyguards manages to bash him in the cranium with a halberd.
That's the first I've seen about Henry being a good warrior, but fair.
 
It just came to my mind that John de La Pole's mother Elizabeth of York, Duchess of Suffolk was still alive at the time, so could her husband try and claim the throne in her name?
 
It just came to my mind that John de La Pole's mother Elizabeth of York, Duchess of Suffolk was still alive at the time, so could her husband try and claim the throne in her name?
Not with the York girls and Warwick and Margaret of Clarence still alive....

Unless Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, is alive in which case he presses for young Stafford as the Lancastrian heir.
The young Duke of Buckingham as King Consort to Elizabeth of York sound really interesting... He also is her first cousin, but a maternal one son so he is also Lincoln’s cousin-in-law... Still Lancastrian blood came from the Beauforts like that of Margaret, the Yorks (from Cecily Neville, and the Clarences also from Warwick) and Stanley’s sons (their mother was niece of Duchess Cecily)
 
Crucial point. Can Stanley get a cavalry force to Sheriff Hutton ahead of the news of Henry's death? If so he has a good chance of rounding up EoY et al before they are tempted to do a moonlight flit to the continent.
 
Why should Stanley care about Jasper's opinion? And OP excluded possibility of Jasper remaining alive during discussion.
I'm looking at the original post and it said nothing about Jasper Tudor being dead. If he can keep the army together then he can force his way into having a seat at the table, he has a couple valuable prisoners he can use as leverage, even if it's just to secure ransom to live a comfortable life in exile.

Crucial point. Can Stanley get a cavalry force to Sheriff Hutton ahead of the news of Henry's death? If so he has a good chance of rounding up EoY et al before they are tempted to do a moonlight flit to the continent.
Good question, if Stanley can get his own cavalry force to rise to Sheriff Hutton then it becomes a race between Northumberland and Stanley with Northumberland having a head start.
 
Why should Stanley care about Jasper's opinion?
Are you seriously asking why Stanley would care about the remaining leadership of the victorious Lancastrian forces? The ones he's just "helped".
And OP excluded possibility of Jasper remaining alive during discussion.
What? Excluding the choices the OP is:
In the event that both Richard III and Henry Tudor die at the Battle of Bosworth, who do you think would become the next King?
Nothing about Jasper Tudor dying at all.

Since Northumberland has fled Stanley and Jasper are the notables having at least preliminary discussions before deciding their next moves.
 
If Stanley has enough money, than yes.
Iirc he's one of the richest men in England - probably at least as rich as Henry Tudor was before becoming King. And once they reach London, presumably he can use the Treasury.

Good question, if Stanley can get his own cavalry force to rise to Sheriff Hutton then it becomes a race between Northumberland and Stanley with Northumberland having a head start.
Does Northumberland know for certain that Henry is dead?

If Henry's men whisk his body away, and just give out that he is wounded, then a few minutes later they can send someone out wearing his coat of arms. Since one man in armour loos very much like another, probably quite a lot of people only learn of his death (or only learn it for certain) after the battle is over., by which time Northumberland may well be already on the road.
 
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Iirc he's one of the richest men in England - probably at least as rich as Henry Tudor was before becoming King. And once they reach London, presumably he can use the Treasury.



Does Northumberland know for certain that Henry is dead?

If Henry's men whisk his body away, and just give out that he is wounded, then a few minutes later they can send someone out wearing his coat of arms. Since one man in armour loos very much like another, probably quite a lot of people only learn of his death (or only learn it for certain) after the battle is over., by which time Northumberland may well be already on the road.
Possible, though what happens if it gets out that henrh is in fact dead? He’d need to speak to the men no?
 
Possible, though what happens if it gets out that henrh is in fact dead? He’d need to speak to the men no?
As soon as Richard's army is safely polished off, announce the sad news that Henry has died of his wounds and that before dying he named his cousin , Sir Charles Beaufort of Chepstow (OTL the future Charles *Somerset* and First Earl of Worcester) as his heir. Then head for London to get him crowned before any movement gathers for anyone else.
 
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As soon as Richard's army is safely polished off, announce the sad news that Henry has died of his wounds and that before dying he named his cousin , Sir Charles Beaufort of Chepstow (OTL the future Charles *Somerset* and First Earl of Worcester) as his heir. Then head for London to get him crowned before any movement gathers for anyone else.
Interesting indeed, where was sir Charles when Bosworth was going down?
 
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