Turkish *Fascism
- Thread starter Oweno
- Start date
Keenir
Banned
- they were busy keeping the Greeks from conquering the butchering everyone.
- they'd just lost 2/3rds of the Empire in a bloody war.
- everyone was secceeding right and left.
- highwaymen and brigands everywhere in the country.
anti-immigration (refusing immigrants from Russia and Central Asia)
hugely statist (more-so than OTL could ever be)
fiercely protective of its people (like OTL), even against the Nazi Empire.
I once started a similar thread; https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=58608
It made me realize one thing, it won't be easy for the Turks to go on a rampage like the Germans did.
It made me realize one thing, it won't be easy for the Turks to go on a rampage like the Germans did.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
Not too hard to imagine - Turkey in OTL has been fascist since 1923 until recently. It's basically a kinder, gentler fascism, but just imagine Kemalism dialed up a few notches and you've got it. It would be more isolationist and xenophobic.
The reason Turkey is not interested in recreating the Ottoman Empire is because it is fundamentally an ethnic-nationalist state and the Ottoman Empire was a universalist state. These are irreconcilable concepts.
With the recent death throes of Kemalism and the revival of Ottoman/Turkish culture, the whole nature of the state is being called into question, but I don't think that the territorial revival of the Ottoman Empire will ever even cross anyone's mind. More likely the ethnic elements of the state ideology that have developed with be deemphasized and the Islamic/Ottoman roots of the culture revitalized, which should be good news for the Kurds.
Let me assume - Inonu instead of Ataturk as the first Turkish President. Inonu alone scares me.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
I don't think he was more dictatorially inclined than Ataturk - probably less so. He was an extremely able diplomat and military commander, but lacked his predecessor's charisma. He's sort of the Hillary to Ataturk's Obama. I wonder how many Turkish nationalists will bomb my apartment for that sentence.
Well, at least there won't be any Serb nationalists doing that to your apartment. (Remember that the Turkish Embassy was attacked alongside the US embassy because of that Kosovo brouhaha - is it a coincidence?)
So, how could Inonu be more, to use your words, "dictatorially inclined"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_wolves
True, these guys are closer to Lebanese Phalangists or Mussolini-style fascism, and they're a product of the 50's and 60's, but if the political violence of the 1970's and 80's had spiraled even more out of control than OTL, these guys could have had a real shot at taking power.
True, these guys are closer to Lebanese Phalangists or Mussolini-style fascism, and they're a product of the 50's and 60's, but if the political violence of the 1970's and 80's had spiraled even more out of control than OTL, these guys could have had a real shot at taking power.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
I would have to disagree. They are viewed by almost all Turks as terrorists and a terrible embarrassment to Turkey.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
Actually Dan, I think I'm going to change my answer. Turkey WAS a fascist state. In fact, Ataturk even adopted Mussolini's criminal code.
The only way Turkey was different than, say, Germany, was that the Germans were unfortunate and got a madman as leader, whereas the Turks were lucky and got fairly responsible totalitarian fascist leaders.
The only way Turkey was different than, say, Germany, was that the Germans were unfortunate and got a madman as leader, whereas the Turks were lucky and got fairly responsible totalitarian fascist leaders.
Hmm, would Turkey have been different if Ataturk adopted, say, a different criminal code? Remember that the civil code is Swiss in origin.
Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
True. The same could be said for Mexico under the PRI.
Inonu still creeps me out, though.
Keenir
Banned
drat, you beat me to saying that.
which criminal code would you have selected? bear in mind you have to use it to punish brigands, highwaymen, thieves, traitors, and spies, as well as common criminals.
how so?
Either English common law (Scots law could also work in tandem) or the Napoleonic Code, but that's because, Europe-wise, I'm partial to Britain and France.
While that is true of the Grey Wolves themselves, the pan-turkist MHP could certainly be dragged to the right by, say, a 1980 coup which is more explicitly partisan. Say groups like DevSol start forming real, effective leftist armies, the army cracks down, and Evren and his crew ban everybody to the left of Suleyman Demirel from politics. Martial law is phased out but never really goes away, and Turkey resembles francoist spain at it's worst by the mid 80's.