TLiaW: Dawn of the Dragon

The First (USSR) that nobody wants, and now China joins them in that cold regard. I'd say it was not something I saw coming, but that is true only in regards to the manner of their Deaths. Though the underlying cause is more than plausible, given that AFAIK, at that time even the Soviet Quality Assurance was better than China's, and the Soviets had more than a few problems.
Ad astra per aspera. Didn't see the acccident coming. The engineers have been lucky to save their heads...
Oh, dear....:(
Quite. These are the first astronauts I've killed since a bit of short fiction I wrote years ago in response to a challenge to do a realistic version of the incident described in the song "Space Oddity". In all of Eyes, I think the total casualty count was two broken wrists and a sprained shoulder: one of the former on Spacelab 28's abort, the other and the latter on one of the Artemis flights.

Shevek23 said:
This is what the Russians did OTL with Vostok, launching two at the same time and simply by success in aiming them so they happened to orbit near one another, claiming a successful formation flight and implying readiness to begin docking experiments. Actually the two capsules had essentially no control over their trajectories; it was a feat of ground control aiming them just so.
Yeah, that's the model both in the TL and in my creation of it--the best they can do with Shuguang-A.

You tell us that the nominal mission plan has the craft undergoing 6 g's before main engine cutoff.......Earlier you revised the post with the first flight down to 8 G's from 13, using that instead brings the mass down to a quarter ton under 9 tons, leaving just 4 and a quarter tons of propellant or about 300 seconds burn time for the verniers.
Good point, I missed that in revisions. Originally, the cause of the failure was slightly different--this like the other post had to be revised to account for the actual second stage function you turned up, and I had a typo when copying. (6 Gs is the rough value before first stage cutoff/separation.) I've adjusted it to be the 8 Gs I meant it to be.

But wait! How are they barely suborbital? The point of staging to verniers is to sidestep the high G's of full second stage thrust on a fully drained stack, therefore whenever it happens, the stage still has substantial masses of propellant left. That propellant, over a period of hundreds of seconds, would provide delta-V on the order of thousands of meters per second, meaning that at MECO the craft is substantially slower than orbital speed.
As you say, it depends on how lon the verniers fire after main engine cutoff on the second stage in the nominal profile. I don't have that information, and I'm attempting to guess, but if they limit the stage to 8 Gs, then the verniers only have to provide another ~500 m/s. That's pretty close to suborbital in my book. Even a km/s shortage would still produce an orbit that would take them most of the way around before the perigee scraped the atmosphere and they burnt up. They're a heck of lot closer to suborbital than they are to, say, SpaceShipOne, anyway. I think I'm justified in calling it "just barely suborbital".
 
Part 7: Beginning Again
Part 7: Beginning Again

The tragedy of Shuguang 5 and the year-long stand-down in manned Chinese space flights that followed had several major legacies. One key one was that it reminded at least those within the program, if not their political leadership, that spaceflight was a challenging task, one demanding caution and careful work, not one which could be left to luck and narrow escapes. There might always be another time that wasn’t lucky enough. The stand-down also saw the chance to focus on the transition to Shuguang-B and the final development of Tianjia, a focus that saw several issues with the Long March 2C and its new payloads --some caused by design flaws, others by simple lack of proper resources during development and production--found and corrected. However, the willingness of the Chinese government to avoid a more inquisitorial approach to the Shuguang 5 disaster was conditional on the Chinese space program soon returning to producing grist for the propaganda mill as they paced the superpowers--a continuing demonstration of the nation’s rising power. Such patience could only last so long, and by 1977 the pressure to return to flight was rising. Finally, after almost a year and a half, all was ready for the start of a new era in Chinese spaceflight.

The first manned flight of Shuguang-B came on February 20, 1977. Shuguang 6’s two man crew lifted off into orbit on the first manned Long March 2C, and the entire launch control breathed a sigh of relief as the second stage burnt out and the capsule’s crew confirmed they were in a stable orbit. Proceeding about their business, the crew opened the hatch and explored the small additional volume available thanks to the pressurized tunnel past the heatshield to the docking port. With the capsule verified to be in working order, the crew set about a three-day flight plan to test Shuguang-B’s new systems. The flight plan was packed with small burns to test the translational thrusters’ ability to alter Shuguang’s orbit, and monitoring these maneuvers with the capsule’s onboard computers, comparing the specialized system’s ability to track their movements and compute orbital adjustments. Considering the risk inherent in the return to flight, flight planners were in no hurry to take excessive risk, so Shuguang 6 was left as a simple orbital test, without even pushing the limits of the capsule’s endurance--now increased to up to seven days on just internal supplies.

A more serious test of Shuguang-B’s capabilities had to wait an additional three months. In May 1977, Shuguang 7’s crew spent a week on orbit, testing the capsule’s endurance and using their capsule’s thrusters to repeatedly maneuver away from and then chase down their spent second stage, then conducted rendezvous and proximity operations with it. Key among these proximity maneuvers was the “turnover”. The rendezvous radar on Shuguang was located forward, to enable to pilot to fly the main approach looking visually at the approaching target out his viewport. However, during final docking approach to a station, the capsule would have to flip over to present its rear-facing docking port, with the pilot then flying off a secondary, short-range radar and visual instructions relayed from his co-pilot, who would have his faceplate pressed to the window in the docking hatch and his feet sticking back through the tunnel into the main cockpit. With this maneuver so vital, demonstrating it was a critical part of Shuguang 7’s flight plan. Unfortunately, the reality turned out to be more difficult than in simulators: the crew made four attempted approaches to within meters of their depleted (and safed) second stage, but only one could truly be considered “successful,” with the others failing in one way or another, due to balky computers, issues with the short-term final approach radar, and communication between the pilot and the directing co-pilot. Still, one success was better than none, and Shuguang 7’s experience was valuable insight to prepare for the real thing.

As the capsule half of the Tiangong station program proceeded through its debut and testing, the actual station portion of the project had also been working through its own development. Finally, in July 1977, the maiden Tianjia module was ready to fly to orbit. To manage expectations, the leadership of the Chinese space program referred to the launch as an engineering qualification flight, just as Shuguang-A and B had debuted with unmanned tests. The module was hardly impressive as it made its way to be mounted to the booster: a stubby cylinder three meters in diameter and only five meters long, with its forward end bearing the large two meter diameter docking system and the docking hatch and its aft end housing a ring of attitude control thrusters, batteries, and communications systems. On each side, folded solar arrays were mounted to stretch the life which could be packed into the batteries and still stay within the 3.5 ton limit of the Long March 2C. Even this size of module (or perhaps particularly this size of module) had proven a challenge to the Chinese engineers, given the complexity of the long-duration life support systems, automated computers, and other systems which had to be packed within the tight mass and volume limits. After all, with a volume less than 35 cubic meters, Tianjia was barely more than a third the size of the Soviet Salyuts and a ninth the size of the American Skylab [1].

Unfortunately, comparisons to Skylab would prove somewhat prophetic, and the decision to characterize the flight as an engineering development mission would prove wise. When Tianjia-1 reached orbit, a failure occurred in the deployment of its solar panels. This left the tiny station with only its onboard batteries for power, which were designed to last little more than two days to supplement the solar arrays in a nominal mission. Through feats of operational brilliance worthy of the Hanukkah story, the Chinese managed to conserve enough power to stretch the station’s life to more than a week. This was only enough to enable the station’s basic functionality and space-worthiness to be confirmed, but little more. As Tianjia-1 finally ran out of power and shut down in orbit, it seemed as though the return of the Chinese space program and their space station dreams might end as they had barely begun...

[1] So you couldn't even outright steal, you had to fiddle with it? Yeah, I decided to have the Chinese focus on something between the “one-room” and “two-room” module size from the original American concepts I’m basing this on. I figured that the increased hull for volume costs little more mass (compare hypergolic prop tankage, and the fact that both the "one room" and "two room" versions were supposed to fit in a 3.5 ton Titan II launch. Moreover, I figure any station-dweller would much rather have the extra few cubic meters it than lack them. It might be funnier to cram two astronauts into a space about the size of a shower stall for weeks, but I think I can have the Chinese go for the deluxe option of stuffing two astronauts into a space the size of the entire bathroom. :)
 
Two Astronauts, in a space the size of a shower stall, for two weeks? Well the OTL Gemini (from which the Shuguang is based) wasn't known as the Gusmobile for no reason. So no surprise that extra space is something that would be extremely desirable.

And still having a few problems with the more complex areas of spaceflight.
 
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Thanks! Welcome aboard!
Two Astronauts, in a space the size of a shower stall, for two weeks? Well the OTL Gemini (from which the Shuguang is based) wasn't known as the Gusmobile for no reason. So no surprise that extra space is something that would be extremely desirable.
One and one half room, or; Maoist Mansion!

I'd sure like the extra volume! Glad to see it is cheap.
Well, relatively--it's by my estimate something like half to three quarters of a ton, which wouldn't be a problem if this were on Saturn, Shuttle, or even an Ariane 1, but it should just squeak under the 3.5 ton limit if they skimp elsewhere, and it really seems necesary to me to manage two people in there for a month or more, particularly once you start subtracting volume for systems and consumables.
 
Part 8: Lucky Number 8
Two major failures in four missions...the Chinese are in a tight spot. They'll just have to hope they can can be fortunate enough to pull this out...

Part 8: Lucky Number Eight

The failure of Tianjia-1’s solar arrays to deploy had spelled a decisive early end to the mission, making it only partially successful in its role of proving the module’s functionality. With the memories of Shuguang 5 all-too-fresh, engineers set to work investigating. Even more relevant than the technical lessons learned on Shuguang 5 were fresh threats from party leadership. If results from their “light hand” on Shuguang 5’s investigation could not be demonstrated, it might be necessary to conduct a more thorough search for bastions of saboteurs or counter-revolutionary thought within the program. The failure of Tianjia-1 seemed to pose just such a precedent and many in the program feared the consequences. Salvaging the program would take bold action--though action which was careful not to exceed the limits of caution taught at such cost by the post-flight investigation of the actual causes of Shuguang 5’s loss. What was necessary was a way to investigate the station’s condition and reasons for its failure in order to ensure that Tianjia-2 (officially planned as the first manned station mission) could proceed on the schedule demanded by their political masters.

Fortunately, the Chinese space program already possessed a perfect tool for this key task: the Shuguang 8 mission. Planned for September, the mission was officially manifested as a repeat of the Shuguang 7 flight plan, incorporating improved procedures and equipment. The crew were training to spend a week in space practicing improved rendezvous, turnover, and docking techniques with their second stage. However, this was also a cover story for a contingency plan, just as Tianjia-1 was officially an engineering demonstration. If Tianjia-1’s qualification had been particularly successful, Shuguang 8 had been planned to be able to convert to an actual rendezvous and docking with the station module as a target. Obviously the failure of the station’s power systems left this impossible--with the station’s loss of power came a loss of attitude control, and actually docking to the station’s port would be more challenging than Chinese program directors were willing to risk. However, they were able to present an alternative use of Shuguang 8 which would answer the problems raised by Tianjia-1: using Shuguang 8 to approach and conduct a close survey of the disabled modules. Depending on the condition of the station, this could include a variety of inspections, including close range photography and perhaps even an EVA to determine the precise cause of the failure of the station’s solar arrays. The alternate mission plan was approved, spun politically as a creative use of China’s space capabilities--much as the space program represented the nation’s burgeoning industrial power.

Due to the last-minute replanning of the mission, Shuguang 8’s flight was delayed by several weeks to allow some necessary re-training and to enable the mission designers to develop and fit a variety of small cameras and other inspection gear into the capsule’s payload. Finally, on September 26, 1977, the Shuguang 8 crew lifted off for orbit on their Long March 2C rocket. The ascent was nominal, the Shuguang-B capsule performed to spec, and the crew set to the business of chasing down the derelict Tianjia-1 module. The approach was the first Chinese attempt at rendezvous between two spacecraft launched separately, and the resulting maneuvers took the better part of three days out of a nominal mission duration of a week. However, at long last, the Shuguang radar was able to detect Tianjia-1’s signature as they made rendezvous, and as the crew worked to close the intercept, they were shortly able to visually confirm the module ahead--one barely larger than their own spacecraft but so key to China’s station ambitions. The crew made their approach according to a careful plan, largely copied from the cautious approach planned to be used on a mostly-safed second stage in their original mission plan. The capsule would creep closer to the derelict station then hold its distance at regular intervals, flying formation as the crew recorded their observations through a telescope, took images, and conferred with ground control.

Even from several kilometers out, the issues could be clearly seen: contrary to the worry of many of the engineers on the ground, the solar array could be seen, presenting a somewhat birdlike silhouette to the approaching crew of Shuguang 8. However, it was a skeletal, injured bird as the arrays were ragged and torn--clearly the reason neither had been capable of generating its designed power load. As the crew closed over a period of hours to with a few hundred meters, the situation became more clear. The arrays had clearly fouled somehow on deployment--their covers were still partially in place, and had torn at the array’s surface and bent the ribs, resulting in a failed deployment. Finally, the crew of Shuguang 8 moved in close, making a face-forwards approach to allow both crew to stay in their seats and look out their viewports. They recorded roll after roll of photographs, short video, and their own observations over the radio as they floated just off the small station’s side. Tianjia had picked up a slow end-over-end roll, so tentative (and somewhat dangerous) plans for EVA to the station to extend the wings or to attempt to dock were scrapped. However, over the remaining days of the mission, the two Chinese spacecraft flew in formation, with the Shuguang 8 crew conducting three more approaches, this time including practicing with the revised “turnover” docking approach. The upgraded radar functioned correctly, and with better experience the crew were able to successfully carry each attempt to within a few dozen meters of the derelict station.

Shuguang 8 is quite correctly considered one of the most important missions in the history of the Chinese program. Thanks to the lessons learned on Shuguang 7, the crew were able to fully demonstrate an entire rendezvous and approach, even though Tianjia-1 was unable to hold its attitude. The observations and striking photographs taken by the crew, combined with the analysis during the week-long struggle to keep the station alive on its batteries alone, were able to be combined with a ground investigation to determine the cause of the failure: while the motors used for the fairing separation and array deployment had been tested under extreme thermal limits, they had not been vacuum tested under those same limits, and the result of the cold soak of orbital night had been to cause them to freeze in place half-deployed. The system was re-engineered and re-tested, and preparations began for the launch of an improved, operational station module early the next year. The mission also drew international attention, with many in the American and Soviet programs following the drama of the struggle to keep the station alive, then the inspection flight by Shuguang 8. Though the station was small, NASA and Russian engineers admired the skill of their fellow astronautical engineers and flight directors. For the USAF, though, there was also another note: the flight demonstrated a Chinese ability to approach and work around “uncooperative” satellites. While Tianjia-1 was Chinese-built, the flight of Shuguang 8 put many in mind of flights discussed as possible applications of Blue Gemini or the military potential of the Space Shuttle Orbiter. The potential required careful thought.
 
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So now the others are really paying attention to what the Chinese Space Efforts are demonstrating. Less because of what they've achieved and more on account of what it represents from what I read, and seems to be starting to ripple over to their respective works in that field.

For Tianjia-1, well that was quite an oversight which wrecked the Solar Cells Arrays, still, at least now they know and can redesign the next one to prevent that failure mode from reoccurring. That just leaves all the other ways.
 

Archibald

Banned
That TL is gonna be fun, because (considering the 1971-72 POD) USSR and NASA are already committed to their unuseful, expensive white-elephant shuttle programs while China (and ESA maybe) are launching capsules. :cool:
In the 70's and early 80's, capsule will look backward. But things may change latter on. Will NASA re-invent the wheel (and Apollo !) with an alternate Orion ?
 
Nice update. Will these Chinese mini stations commit the Americans to do something similar, such as man tended station to allow long duration experiments.
 
Nice update. Will these Chinese mini stations commit the Americans to do something similar, such as man tended station to allow long duration experiments.

Would an American mini-station (which could actually be quite large, since a Titan III or the Shuttle could launch a reasonably sized station for the period) actually be worthwhile? Particularly, since a station that the Shuttle could launch could also, theoretically, be brought down by it as well (I'm imagining a version of SpaceLab that could be left up in orbit for a while independent of a Shuttle).

Speaking of which, would it be possible to mate one of the Chinese mini-stations to a heat-shield in orbit to allow the Chinese to bring down entire experiments intact?

fasquardon
 
For Tianjia-1, well that was quite an oversight which wrecked the Solar Cells Arrays, still, at least now they know and can redesign the next one to prevent that failure mode from reoccurring. That just leaves all the other ways.
Indeed. We'll see how that turns out in the next post, which should go up tonight or tomorrow

That TL is gonna be fun, because (considering the 1971-72 POD) USSR and NASA are already committed to their unuseful, expensive white-elephant shuttle programs while China (and ESA maybe) are launching capsules. :cool:
In the 70's and early 80's, capsule will look backward. But things may change latter on. Will NASA re-invent the wheel (and Apollo !) with an alternate Orion ?
We'll see! I think you'll enjoy what I've got planned. :)

Nice update. Will these Chinese mini stations commit the Americans to do something similar, such as man tended station to allow long duration experiments.

Would an American mini-station (which could actually be quite large, since a Titan III or the Shuttle could launch a reasonably sized station for the period) actually be worthwhile? Particularly, since a station that the Shuttle could launch could also, theoretically, be brought down by it as well (I'm imagining a version of SpaceLab that could be left up in orbit for a while independent of a Shuttle).
Well, there will be more detail on this coming in later posts, but a short answer would be that Spacelab/Shuttle offers a lot of the same capabilities of Tinjia-A already, but with the benefit of return. Endurance is the major weakness, so that might lean things in favor of a station that grows from man-tended modules left in orbit between missions into a full station instead of making the leap all at once. First task is getting Shuttle flying, though.

fasquardon said:
Speaking of which, would it be possible to mate one of the Chinese mini-stations to a heat-shield in orbit to allow the Chinese to bring down entire experiments intact?
To help answer this, I have this art from Concured, once again helping to illustrate a moment from the timeline:

ushDYm1.png


Here we see an artist's impression of the critical Shuguang 8 inspection mission of the failed Tianjia 1 module. Shuguang-B's aft docking port and the corresponding ring on the station can be clearly seen. It's a bit of a loose interpretation released by the Chinese government--the capsule was actually never this close (for safety), while the station was a bit more ragged and of course slowly flipping end-over-end. Still, you take what you can from propaganda, and it gives a good idea of the size of Tianjia-A.

As for your question about returning it, given how close it is to the diameter of Long March, it'd be a challenge to install a heat shield wide enough to protect the length of the lab during entry, I'm not sure how well the structure would take the loads, and the mass limits are tight--Gemini's heat shield was about 10% of the entry module's mass, so we could expect to need to add about 300 kg to a station module that's already hard against Long March 2C's mass limits. If you wanted that kind of capacity, you'd probably be better using something like a "ShuguangLab" as with SpaceX's DragonLab--modify a Shuguang without seats and instead with the equipment in question. You'd be pretty limited on space, though, and the question would be cost vs. capability when China's already pretty pressed on what they can afford--the space program is politically valuable, but only so much can be freed up when we're still in the very early 80s.
 
Part 9: Dragon's Lair
So, Shuguang 8's inspection flight of the damaged Tianjia demonstrator behind them, surely the worst issues with China's mini-stations are behind them. Will Tianjia, in fact, work? Find out...now!

Part 9: Dragon’s Lair

Even with the information brought by Shuguang 8’s close inspection and the results of ground investigations, the recovery from Tianjia-1’s failure took another six months. Corrections were made to the function of the solar array deployment mechanisms, and the modifications were then subjected to extensive testing on the ground. Although the Central Committee were eager for the first official Chinese space station, they were willing to tolerate a certain delay to ensure a success on the first attempt, given the political value based on the space program as a symbol of rising Chinese power. Finally, in March 1978, the Tianjia-2 module was launched to orbit on top of a Long March 2C booster. To the relief of flight directors, the station’s modified solar arrays deployed without problems. The station was checked out from the ground over the subsequent week and verified to be in full working order. Tianjia-2 was officially renamed Tiangong-1 (“heavenly palace”), and preparations proceeded for the launch of its two-man crew aboard the Shuguang 9 capsule. That launch followed to the station in April, and the flight of the two astronauts to their home-away-from-home in space benefited from the practice on Shuguang 7 and 8. Shuguang 9’s crew were able to make their rendezvous without incident, and then proceeded to conduct the first Chinese docking. After securing with a hard dock, the astronauts opened the hatch and began the Tiangong-1 mission. Over the next fifteen days, the crew twice undocked and redocked to the station, conducted biological experiments monitoring their own health, and more than doubled the longest previous Chinese spaceflight, although the combined station was of smaller dimensions than the Apollo capsules which had carried Americans to the moon. [1]

After more than two weeks in space, Shuguang 9’s crew were pleased to finally leave the cramped station behind and return to Earth. Once the capsule had departed, the station was remotely commanded to use its small attitude jets to drop its orbit into the atmosphere--the tiny early Tianjia modules weren’t designed to be resupplied, largely because Shuguang-B had no margin for carrying logistics mass up. Thus, after each Tiangong crew completed their mission to a Tianjia, the module was retired in fiery plumes over the Indian Ocean. China’s next space station mission, Tiangong 2, would see the launch of Tianjia-3 and Shuguang 10 in November 1978 specifically for the mission. The mission began much like Tiangong 1: Tianjia-3 launched first and was checked out remotely before Shuguang 10 followed the next day. The crew spent their first day on orbit catching up to the station. Once they had chased down Tianjia-3, Shuguang 10 docked to the station, complicated only slightly by a temporary issue with their approach radar following turnover. Once Tiangong 2 was assembled, the crew settled down to their primary mission: spending 30 days aboard the tiny station. To aid in this, the station was loaded with more consumables than aboard Tiangong 1, as well as a larger loadout of scientific equipments. Admittedly, carrying less scientific equipment than the loadout on the 15-day Tiangong 1 would have been challenging, but the net result was that even more of the module’s precious volume was consumed by gear and equipment. Fortunately, the crew had some respite: the cramped confines of their own capsule, which offered a small “second room”. However, it was still a relief to leave the station behind and return back to Earth after a month in space.

The next Chinese station mission stretched the limits of the Tiangong system still further: Tianjia-4 and Shuguang 11 launched to orbit in April of 1979. The Tiangong 3 mission was aimed to double Tiangong 2, just as Tiangong 2 had doubled the two week duration of Tiangong 1, with a planned length of two months. It was also to add new Earth-observing equipment to the station’s confines, enhancing the scientific capacity of the crew. Unfortunately, the Chinese would be forced to report in late May that the mission had encountered a failure in its power and thermal control systems and that the crew had been forced to abort the mission early on Day 44. In fact, this was technically correct, though the whole truth was much juicier and would eventually work its way out as rumor and myth through the space community, first in person and then on the internet. With the added provisions and scientific equipment for their extended mission combined with the existing life support and computer systems of the Tianjia module, less than half the original volume of the module had been left as clear space for the crew. The two astronauts had spent the mission almost literally living in each other’s laps, and while switching off spending time in the capsule’s cockpit could help, frustrations had built up. Worse, the station’s radiator loops had encountered repeated issues, believed to be due to faulty valves, and the crew had been required to spend substantial portions of their planned rest periods diagnosing and attempting to fix transient issues with the station’s thermal control that had sent internal temperatures skyrocketing to nearly 40 C, then plummeting to nearly freezing. However, it wasn’t exactly an equipment failure that ended the mission.

After more than a week of sleeplessness and discomfort, tensions in the tin can of a space station had risen to dangerous levels. Attempts by ground control to resolve the situation had been stymied by the ongoing issues with the thermal control system and political pressure to complete the goal mission--or at least a minimum of 45 days. After almost a month and a half aboard a potentially failing station, alternately sweating and shivering, the co-pilot (serving as flight engineer) had begun to argue heavily for aborting the mission at the 45 day mark, while the commander had pushed to follow the flight directions and stick out another week or so--after all, they had already endured a month under the circumstances, and it wasn’t getting any worse. Fraying tempers had finally stretched, and disagreements between the two astronauts had turned into arguments, which had then escalated to shouting matches. Finally, in the climax of an argument aboard the once-again-sweltering station, the commander struck the flight engineer. The blow unintentionally drove the co-pilot against a pipe fitting on the wall of the station, and tore a gash in his cheek. Contrary to rumors in subsequent decades, the “fight” didn’t further escalate--it ended with the first punch. In fact, the injuries to the co-pilot essentially settled the issue: the commander conducted first aid on the injury and the crew made an emergency return to China for medical treatment. The actual cause of the failure was largely successfully covered up, but there were a few major results: neither astronauts would fly to space again, mission rules would be re-examined, and extended duration Tianjia flights would be curtailed until the debut of Long March 2D with its expanded payload and the associated stretched Tianjia-B space station module. Nevertheless, the incident would persists as one of spaceflight’s infamous legends.

[1] For clarity, that means just the exterior dimensions. The Apollo capsule, of course, had a bunch of propellant and systems in the SM where Tianjia has the actual station. Of course, on the same note, Shuttle's crew cabin alone is about 74 cubic meters--about double Tianjia-A.
 
Ouch. That is not a good (though admittedly far from the worst) way to end a mission. And the biggest issue with the limited available volume, either cut (non-critical) parts out, or cut the space. And a reason why these longer-duration flights make having personal space of your own something of a necessity IMHO.
 

Archibald

Banned
Ouch. This is worse than combined Apollo 7 and Skylab rebellions. Never heard of Soviet cosmonauts being at each other throats, but of course even Salyut was wider, which helped a little.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
Ouch. That is not a good (though admittedly far from the worst) way to end a mission. And the biggest issue with the limited available volume, either cut (non-critical) parts out, or cut the space. And a reason why these longer-duration flights make having personal space of your own something of a necessity IMHO.

Ouch. This is worse than combined Apollo 7 and Skylab rebellions. Never heard of Soviet cosmonauts being at each other throats, but of course even Salyut was wider, which helped a little.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Indeed. China's pushing the limits of their launch capabilities...and once again sometimes those limits push back. Still, 45 days isn't bad for a station that size...and there's Long March 2D and Tianjia-B coming soon to look forward to.

On the note of Tianjia-A, Concured has been nice enough to work up this rendering of a complete stack such as those seen on Tiangong 1, 2, and 3 in this timeline:

Z48i8Ny.png
 
Fascinating. It's impressive what the Chinese are accomplishing ITTL, even if they are pushed harder than their counterparts elsewhere. At least the station hasn't caught fire yet.

To what pressure are the Chinese space station modules pressurized? Soviet-style 14.7 psi or American 5 psi? The latter would seem to allow slightly lower mass (so I would think they'd go with that).

Any chance of China offering its potential third-world allies a visit to the station, akin to Interkosmos?
 
It occurred to me that while the Chinese are waiting on the development of Long March 2D, they can still expand on the limits of the Shuguang 10 mission by launching not one but two Tianjia modules. Of course that imposes the logistical overhead of having to dock not once but twice; either the two modules are remote-controlled to dock with each other unmanned, then the Shuguang mission comes up to dock with the pair as usual, or else the Shuguang comes up, docks with one, then the second pilot moves back to a second docking station at the back of the first Tianjia module, and using maneuvering thrusters built into that module along with the forward set on the Shuguang, they maneuver the whole massive stack onto the smaller second module. Or third option, one of them or both spacewalk over to the second module after a routine dock to the first, and operating controls on it, dock it to the assembly. That last one is pretty damn scary for a variety of reasons and probably would never be considered seriously of course!

Any way you look at it, it is not easy. I can see the wisdom of simply waiting for the next iteration of Long March, which after all would allow not only a larger version of Tianjia, but a larger Shuguang C. In the McDonnell Gemini proposals, the Gemini was after all supposed to be space tractor as well as taxi.

On the other hand, while Tianjia-Shuguang based temporary stations do have a worthwhile set of uses of their own, i have to figure that the Chinese mission planners, like the designers at McDonnell, have sold the program as something that extends beyond this capability, to an open-ended program for larger and more permanent space stations. And unlike the American designers, who knew for a fact that launch vehicles much larger than even Titan III were in the works and would presumably become operational, the Chinese may anticipate that something orders of magnitude bigger than current Long Marches might be developed someday, but the only way to make concrete plans is to assume only gradual, incremental evolution of their capability.

For what it is worth, when I was kludging around with various Silverbird Launch simulator models of Long March type rockets, it seemed to me that the first stage was rather hefty and robust compared to the second; that there is considerable room for growth just using bigger second stages and payloads. When they run into hard limits of the first stage's installed thrust capability, adding on some auxiliary strap-on boosters, either solids or something based on additional single YF-20 series engines, would again allow some more incremental progress.

So--while they can hope to add on 20, 30 or 50 percent to their current maximum launch masses, there is no current plan (that you've disclosed anyway:p) for a radical new heavier launch vehicle. A few tens of percent more can relieve current over-tight margins a bit, but won't radically change the nature of what the Long March system can do.

So the only way forward, aside from growing Long March a bit, is to get on with learning how to gang together an arbitrarily large number of Tianjia modules. Three units total, counting the Shuguang as one of them of course, is a much bigger challenge than two, for the reasons I sketched above. Either they have to master automated, remote-guided docking procedures that don't require astronauts on hand to do the driving at all, or the separate modules must each have quite a lot of maneuvering overhead in the form of propellant and sets of maneuvering jets that become redundant as soon as dockings are successful. (Presumably, with a little complication, a standard set of plumbing and interconnections can be used to siphon off remaining propellant from modules in the middle of a chain or network of modules and refill the tanks of ones on tips, where the propellant would be useful. And not so incidentally, reduce the hazard the stored hypergolics pose, if the crew can then concentrate activity mostly in the emptied middle modules). And then the crews have to become adept at maneuvering the large constellations of Tinkertoy modules they have managed to jockey together to swoop down on (really, creep up on) small additional modules.

Or I guess in lieu of my alarming spacewalk option, the crew of a Shuguang can undock from the large partially assembled station, fly over to a new module, dock with it, and fly it as usual to the larger object and a suitable docking port on it.

It does make me wonder whether they are going to rethink the docking mechanism, to make it more androgynous, so that any port can dock to any instead of having to think out carefully the gender of each port one designs and launches!
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Something else has been bothering me. Can you elaborate on the Chinese landing recovery plan? OTL when China has finally nowadays gotten around to a manned craft, they based it on Soyuz, so its return capsules are designed to come down on land, which serves Chinese security interests really well--the Shenzhous presumably start aerobraking over Central Asia and are aimed so that their westernmost probable landing site is just east of the western border, in the wastelands of Xinjiang. That way the most probable site is safely in the wilderness they control, and the farthest east is still very far west of very densely populated land.

But Shuguang like Gemini cannot safely plan to come to rest on dry land; it requires a body of water to splash into. If the Chinese had somewhat more mass to play with than the Americans with their Titan IIs, they might add in extra parachute area (if that works--I suppose trying to slow descent speeds with bigger chutes is a mug's game because the more it lowers the terminal velocity, the less effective a given area is, so just doubling up on parachutes might be very cost-ineffective) or develop some sort of auxiliary landing rocket a la Soyuz. Given that there is a plan to develop Shuguang's heat shield into a hatch, I don't think a single solid rocket in the dead center of the heat shield would work well, so they'd have to do something more like TKS, with a retro-rocket attached to the nose, or as with TKS on the chute rigging lines, I'd think.

But anyway the Chinese don't have a positive credit of mass to work with, they have a deficit to work around, so perforce they are going to have to fall back on recovery into bodies of water.

Which raises a lot of questions, that I tried to beat to death in a long draft of another post.:eek: Would you please anticipate them, and tell us the limits and constraints on the precision of a Shuguang landing--especially an emergency return such as Shuguang 11's--that govern which bodies of water they aim for? I'm assuming the uncertainty about the precise splashdown location of even a planned and prepared landing, with extensive sounding of weather conditions along the anticipated entry path and so forth, is so great that they must aim for a point well offshore China, in the Pacific.

Here's a map of the Economic Exclusion Zones the PRC claims today--
China_Exclusive_Economic_Zones.png

--but note that the modern conventions about a 200 mile extension of partial sovereignty off shore date from the 1980s; in the 70s I doubt anyone outside of the PRC would be so generous as even to grant them the limited economic exclusion rights they now enjoy even in the dark purple area that is contiguous with their shore--the wider claims in lighter color or merely outlined are strongly disputed even today. Anyway the Exclusion Zone concept refers to rights to exploit oceanic resources, but does not remove these waters from international high seas. Which means ships of foreign powers conventionally still have the right to intrude on these waters, to transit or loiter as they please.

I would imagine a Shuguang's landing footprint of probable locations is much longer than the 12 mile limit modern law grants as sovereign national waters, so the aim must be for a point that may or may not be within the EEZ but anyway are waters where foreign vessels may freely congregate.

And that means the People's Liberation Army Navy (don't look at me, I'm not the one who comes up with a Navy that is part of an Army and frankly names it so:p) or one of their other coastal forces such as these guys must not only send out some kind of craft to actually come to the aid of the landed astronauts and attempt to salvage their spacecraft as well, but meanwhile also discourage loitering gawkers. With Nixon going to China around the time of the first successful manned missions, the grave threat the USN would have posed should we have taken a frosty line is largely averted and in a situation where the Chinese actually would want help, converted into a valuable backstop asset. With relations correct and thawing between the powers, the Americans might still want to investigate Chinese space operations as closely (and suspiciously) as they can, but they won't interfere and will help if asked to. The danger here is losing the prestige game if they have to ask, and the risk that the Yankees will discredit Chinese ability by being overhelpful.

With the US State Department more or less in the PRC's corner all of a sudden, while the USN might harbor many officers and sailors who remain skeptical of the wisdom of cozening up to the most populous and fanatically Communist nation in the world, since it is Nixon and not some presumptive commie-symp liberal who is cuddling up to Mao and his successors, the Navy will follow orders and be as helpful to the Chinese space program as Beijing allows--though perhaps some of them will be more than thrilled to interpret their orders so as to embarrass the ChiComs!

Without the quasi-protection of the USN though, it is hard to see how the Chinese proposed to keep their astronauts completely safe from the Soviet Navy. They too, despite the extreme tension that had arisen in the Sino-Soviet split, would probably be under orders to do nothing that would be an open act of war--but also understand that any opportunities they could take to embarrass the Chinese would be approved in the Kremlin too. With the Americans cozying up to China, the danger that Soviet vessels might seriously gum things up recedes considerably of course.

So--now that Nixon has gone to China, and the USA appears to be on the course that in fact it has kept to for over a generation now of rapprochement and normalization of relations with the PRC, the Shuguang program can presumably rely on the waters east of China being available for their landings without interference. But how confident could the early mission planners in the early 1970s have been than their capsules would not be pirated by hostile capitalist or Communist powers routinely?

They had to risk it of course, but it would be helpful if you could describe the space and time scale of a Shuguang landing so that we can judge how much of a risk they were running when the Americans were presumed to be hostile, and perhaps liable to acts of piracy against the People's Republic.

Also, a description of the logistics of Shuguang recovery is in order because the PRC has very different kinds of resources than the Americans did. The USA had the US Navy, deployed with bases all around the world, and dozens of aircraft carrier groups, each a many-ship task force that routinely deployed large helicopters as well as many specialized auxiliary ships, and carrier decks that could launch and land squadrons of fighter planes.

The PLAN has one single aircraft carrier today. It had zero in the 1970s, and my reading at wikipedia on the particular classes of ship they did have (the heaviest being destroyers, not even any cruisers) suggests that very few of those could deploy even a single helicopter in that decade.

I suspect that recovery of a Shuguang would begin with intensive planning and tracking of the actual entry, to try to land it as close to Chinese shores as possible without risking it actually coming down inland somewhere, with probably fatal results for the crew and a fair likelihood of killing or otherwise hurting a fair number of bystanders on the ground too. Supersonic fighter planes would be dispatched from shore bases to attempt to spot and locate the capsule and pinpoint its landing, while keeping an eye out for foreign intruders. The fighters that find it would loiter in the region, in line of sight of the floating capsule, to deter intruders and keep an eye on the capsule until other resources can arrive. The Chinese had, in the 1970s, some old Beriev Be-6 flying boats--around this time, their Soviet-made radial engines were starting to give out and some were re-engined with Chinese made turboprops instead. I suppose one or two of these would be dispatched next, perhaps sitting already near the predicted middle of the landing footprint. They could get there faster than helicopters, even assuming the Chinese had choppers and the ability to land them on nearby ships. The flying boats would put down and one would sidle up to the capsule to recover the crew, in the style of WWII USN "Dumbo" PBY's in the Pacific. They might send two so that one can keep watch over the capsule while the other speeds the crew back to shore. Then a seaborne vessel of some kind, possibly a destroyer, maybe something smaller, comes up and simply lifts the empty capsule out of the sea with a crane, and protected either simply by its PRC flag or perhaps by other armed vessels of the PLAN, heads for port while any other PLAN vessels assembled to secure the landing zone disperse to their normal patrol regions. The fighter planes probably had to return to base some time before, as soon as the first flying boat landed and took custody of the situation, though in a tense situation they'd be relieved by other fighters circling around to intimidate any possible evildoers lurking about--anyway now they can go home, or rather remain perhaps as air cover for the returning vessels.

This is somewhat different from how the Americans did it of course. And if some rival power such as the Soviets were bound and determined to interfere, the Chinese would be risking a nuclear war to oppose them. American support makes it unlikely the Soviets would dare, but also would make the Americans queasy. In the modern geopolitical context, I do not doubt the Chinese would be able to deploy enough force of the right kind to discourage any shenanigans, but in the 1970s they would be much less credible a few dozens of miles offshore from their massive land power.

So it is no accident I suppose that the modern Chinese, despite their much better position on the high seas today, have instead chosen a system that allows for land recovery, which relieves them of these kinds of headaches.

I would think then that Shuguang designers are under some pressure to reserve part of any mass they can add to their system for alternative landing technology of some kind that would allow Shuguang-C or later versions to be recovered inland, in the steppes and deserts of the far west, rather than in the foreigner-infested waters to the east.
 
It occurred to me that while the Chinese are waiting on the development of Long March 2D, they can still expand on the limits of the Shuguang 10 mission by launching not one but two Tianjia modules. Of course that imposes the logistical overhead of having to dock not once but twice...Any way you look at it, it is not easy. I can see the wisdom of simply waiting for the next iteration of Long March, which after all would allow not only a larger version of Tianjia, but a larger Shuguang C. In the McDonnell Gemini proposals, the Gemini was after all supposed to be space tractor as well as taxi.
Quite so, especially as they expect Long March 2D to arrive within a year or two--time they expected to fill with a couple more Tianjia-A flights but now will just be using for preparations. They could invest a lot in connecting multiple 3.5 ton modules, but at the risk of drawing out Tianjia-B and Long March 2D development. Or indeed, as you say, Suhuguang-C which you've managed to deduce the existence of, which can serve as a tug for assembling multiple modules to a Tianjia-B.

For what it is worth, when I was kludging around with various Silverbird Launch simulator models of Long March type rockets, it seemed to me that the first stage was rather hefty and robust compared to the second; that there is considerable room for growth just using bigger second stages and payloads. When they run into hard limits of the first stage's installed thrust capability, adding on some auxiliary strap-on boosters, either solids or something based on additional single YF-20 series engines, would again allow some more incremental progress.
Congrats, you've re-deduced the design of the Long March 2E/F of OTL, or the Long March 2D of TTL: a Long March 2C core with a set of single-engine hypergol boosters and stretched upper stage. :) Payload is about 9.5 tons, and it's due to launch in about 1981.

It does make me wonder whether they are going to rethink the docking mechanism, to make it more androgynous, so that any port can dock to any instead of having to think out carefully the gender of each port one designs and launches!
They might, the question is if and when they have to bite the bullet and redesign from the "temporary kludge" that continues to work--something that strikes in every space program and really most engineering in general, but particularly when designing on shoestring timelines and budget.

Something else has been bothering me. Can you elaborate on the Chinese landing recovery plan?
As best as I've been able to turn up, the plan for Shuguang(-A) was splashdown--they were commissioning a series of tracking and pickup ships to serve as communications relays and pickup ships for their capsules. No idea how they planned to stop anyone from grabbing their stuff--presumably however they did so with FSW. As you note, it's far easier to manage when they can land on land, so my ruling is that part of the mods from the Shuguang-A to Shuguang-B capsule is including larger landing bags that allow a land landing. That should only take something of the order of 50-100 kg, so it's doable in the ton they're adding.

Which raises a lot of questions, that I tried to beat to death in a long draft of another post.:eek: Would you please anticipate them, and tell us the limits and constraints on the precision of a Shuguang landing--especially an emergency return such as Shuguang 11's--that govern which bodies of water they aim for?
Would if I could, but I honestly don't know. My guess would be something lime the OTL Gemini, Apollo, and Soyuz landing ellipses--about a five mile ellipse around a target point. That might have been tight enough they'd aim close to shore, but...I don't know.
 
Auwa on Shuguang 9 crew
but that you get if you squeeze two men inside a small room for 45 days

top record for that is Gemini 7 mission with two men with around 3 cubic meter for them on board of Gemini Capsule
james Lovell and frank Borman stay 13 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes, 1 second in that capsule
The crew conducted experiments, evaluated spacecraft systems, and worked, slept, ate, exercised, rested, etc, while sitting in there pilot chairs all time.
Borman states the last three days of the mission were "bad".
one of them stated "either we become friends or Enemies on this flight" don't know wich one.

That Shuguang 9 crew had "Anger management" problem after 45 days in that tiny space is quite normal response,
This in combination of overloaded work schedule let's to mayhem, see Apollo 7 and Skylab 4

On potential future Chinese space projects,
with Long March with booster like Titan III or common core booster.
bigger station can be launch like a Chinese version of MOL...
 
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