I see a major problem.I don't think most royal houses would be interested in marrying their daughters over to the US if they can help it.
TL: A Different Louis XVI
- Thread starter JonasResende
- Start date
I was actually thinking of France offering a cousin - one of Prince Xavier of Saxony's daughters - for the future king of the USA. She's well connected - Denmark, Saxony-Poland, Savoy, Austria, France, Spain etc - but not someone that would be important enough for London to throw a wobbly about. She's Catholic, but if she were to become Protestant, it's hardly as though anyone's going to take much issue with this.
As to marry over the Atlantic, the European royals will probably view marriage to the king of Appalachia/prince of Roanoke the same as marriage to the emperor of Russia was viewed ("German states frequently offered their daughters as ancient Athens did their maidens for the minotaur"). After all, they were unwilling to dispatch their princesses over the Atlantic to be empress of Brazil (the only reason both Pedro I and II got their wives was because in Pedro I's case, he was married as heir to the throne of Portugal; and in Pedro II's, because his minister in Naples was friends with the king). Which means for the immediate future, the Appalachian kings are going to have wives from relatively low on the European totem pole - cousins of kings rather than their children, or royal personages who are well-connected, but not really from important enough families to be significant players in their own right, but I can't see it getting a European king's daughter as queen-consort of America before the mid-19th century.
As to marry over the Atlantic, the European royals will probably view marriage to the king of Appalachia/prince of Roanoke the same as marriage to the emperor of Russia was viewed ("German states frequently offered their daughters as ancient Athens did their maidens for the minotaur"). After all, they were unwilling to dispatch their princesses over the Atlantic to be empress of Brazil (the only reason both Pedro I and II got their wives was because in Pedro I's case, he was married as heir to the throne of Portugal; and in Pedro II's, because his minister in Naples was friends with the king). Which means for the immediate future, the Appalachian kings are going to have wives from relatively low on the European totem pole - cousins of kings rather than their children, or royal personages who are well-connected, but not really from important enough families to be significant players in their own right, but I can't see it getting a European king's daughter as queen-consort of America before the mid-19th century.
1785
In France, the law for the population of the colonies is signed into effect at the Tuileries. This law, popularly called the ‘Tuileries Act’, is concerned with the settling of French citizens in the overseas territories of the crown, particularly in Louisiana. Of course, the duc de Choiseul had a similar idea for the early 1760s as a way of increasing France’s colonies productivity. Unfortunately, King Louis XV had refused to sign off on it. Now, Louis XVI is revisiting the idea. Unlike Choiseul’s hastily planned idea, this has been in the works since the dawn of the current decade (or, if you believe some of the king’s inner circle, since the king was dauphin). The carrot with which Louis is baiting this hook? Land. There’s a shitload of it in the Louisiana territories. And many peasants might be enticed over the Atlantic by the prospect of being able to own a farm six times as large as what they would in France.
And this is no idle, vanity project of the king. His ministers have already managed to drum up nearly 10000 settlers to leave for the New World, with still more wishing to sign on. Granted, not all these settlers are French (and many of those who are, come from Lorraine or Alsace), many are leaving (or are enticed to leave) the Rhineland electorates of Köln, Trier and Mainz, or even the French-adjacent Swiss cantons. The king and his ministers have the idea of settling more French subjects in the recently returned Louisiana territory – partially to discourage incursion from the former British colonies, and partially with the intention of letting Louisiana finally turn a profit for Paris.
Likewise, many of the Acadians that had fled the British invasion of Canada in the 1760s, whom Choiseul had settled in France, with the intention of returning them to the New World as soon as able – something he was unable to do thanks to his fall from power – are offered the equitable value of the landholdings abandoned in Acadie in Louisiana. Thus, it is a piebald host of at least twelve thousand who leave for Louisiana in batches over the next year.
However, the king and his minister plan for these settlers to be rather after the mould of the British yeoman farmers rather than further entrenching the plantations of Lower Louisiana, so most of these will be settled around the towns of St Louis and St Geneviève in Upper Louisiana. Of course, the bad harvests in France are likewise an incentive for many to undertake the arduous Atlantic crossing in the hopes of a better life.
Louisiana, though, is not alone in this. The French colony of Guiane in South America is likewise seeing a boom in population. In a similar fashion to the recruitment for Louisiana, the Crown has managed to tempt not only Frenchmen but also still more foreigners – Venetians, Swedes and Germans – at least four thousand – to emigrate to the colonies of French South America and the sugar islands in the Caribbean. Granted, when Choiseul did this twenty years ago, it was hasty, badly-planned and resulted in a large miscarriage with only about a thousand of the settlers back then surviving the various tropical dangers. This time, it is better planned, better organized and far more successful – even though disease is still the chief cause of the death of at least a quarter of the settlers. The survivors, on the other hand, go on to thrive.
Of course, with France now having more ‘interest’ in the New World, it is quite necessary for France to start building up her navy. Now this is something that generally progresses by alternating between frenetic activity and ships rotting at anchor. Although France is well aware of Britannia ruling the waves, she’ll settle under Louis XVI for a close second. And as a result, the ports at Cherbourg and at Le Havre are extended and expanded. New trade treaties are signed with Sweden and Denmark for the import of timber and tar.
Not only that, but the secretariat of the navy has been shaken up of late. The previous Minister de la Marine – Charles de la Croix, Marquis de Castries – is actually a soldier, who simply found his way into the naval ministry. The king regards him as diligent, but not necessarily the man to oversee France’s naval comeback. So, after politely edging him out, the king appoints the man who directed several naval encounters for the rebellious colonials of late, against the English. After all, if you want to match the British navy, who better to appoint than someone who has actually beaten them? And so, Luc Urbain de Bouëxic, comte de Guichen is appointed as the new minister de la marine, however, Guichen was born in 1712, and while effective, the real minds behind the French naval comeback of the 1780s are the so-called triumvirat – Charles Henri Hector, comte d'Estaing; François Joseph Paul, comte de Grasse; and the explorer, Louis Antoine, comte de Bougainville.
Louis’ reason for these appointments? Guichen is old, and while, of late, his recent naval enterprises consist of defending Ouessant against the British in 1778, fighting the British to a draw off Martinique three times alone in 1780, harrying the British in the Bay of Biscay in 1781. He, like Estaing and Grasse, offered his services to the American government. The king, while being aware that he cannot decorate Guichen for any of his actions against the British, since he didn’t fight as a Frenchman, does reward him with the Cordon Rouge as well as the appointment to the ministry, which includes a seat on the Grand Conseil.
Estaing, on the other hand, has not had favourable reports of his behaviour circulating the court. In fact, many of his subordinates at court can’t help themselves but maligning him at every turn. Estaing successfully blockaded Richard, 1st Earl Howe, in New York harbour with a handful of ships. With that same handful, he gave battle off the coast of Rhode Island to Admiral Howe, although a storm which blew up during the battle resulted in an inconclusive result. Over the winter of 1778/1779 he had overseen the laying down of the first ships of the Appalachian Royal Navy (previously, the ships being used, were simply purchased from friendly powers) in Boston, before sailing for the West Indies in the thaw.
There, he was defeated in his attempts to relieve St-Lucie from the British, but was successful in capturing the islands of St Vincent and Grenada, where he defeated Admiral John Byron with numerical superiority. Once the two islands he had captured were secured, he made for Savannah in Georgia, for an offensive against the British held city. However, the besiegement failed, although Estaing himself was severely wounded – his one leg had to be amputated as a result – in the assault.
Thomas Jefferson, who had since replaced Sir Benjamin Franklin as ambassador to the Tuileries, on hearing of d’Estaing’s disgrace, commented that “if such be the case, then we [Appalachia] would be most grateful should France recommend still more gifted admirals for us”. Many speculate that the king appointed Estaing for this reason.
Grasse, has the most impressive record, since he fought at Ouessant, Grenada, St-Lucie, Martinique and Fort Royal, against the British with varying success. But his great victory, for which the Appalachian government has named him Earl Chesapeake (mangled in French to Comte Chessepique) was his defeat of the British at the Battle of the Virginia Capes (better known as the Battle of Chesapeake Bay). And yet, his defeat by Admiral Hood at the Battle of St Kitts and his defeat and capture by Admiral Rodney at the Battle of the Saintes have not diminished the regard in which he is held, in spite of the court martial for the surrender to Rodney. As a further sign of the esteem in which they are held, Guichen is named Amiral de France in addition to this – the king had to request the resignation of his bastard cousin, the duc de Penthièvre, for the post to become available – while the members of the triumvirat are appointed to the French admiralty (only Bougainville will ever set foot on a ship’s deck again).
In the meantime, Russia makes her approach to France. Emperor Pyotr III sends, as envoy to the Tuileries, Prince Ivan Baryatinski, to negotiate the idea of Russia’s war against the Ottoman Empire. This is more to ensure that France won’t assist her old Muslim ally rather than in the hope that France will join Russia. Therefore, Baryatinski is rather surprised when the French minister of war broaches the topic of a French invasion of Egypt.
The reason for this? The sultan, Abdülhamid I has been busy reforming the Ottoman armed forces, in spite of his being a pacifist. He has found it to be an Augean task, since the reforms are, courtesy of his neighbour to the north, running tandem with the on-again-off-again war with Russia. In implementing his reforms, Abdülhamid has turned to his ancient ally, the most Christian King of France. France is in possession of one of the best armies in Europe at the moment, and who better then, to supervise the improvements to the Ottoman military?
But the king has been hearing other reports about the state of the Ottoman military and of the Ottoman empire in general. As old as the alliance with the Ottomans is, Louis is also looking around as well as forward and back. He has been told of whispers in the corridors of power about the state of affairs in Europe. Russia already has Poland – France’s other traditional ally – out of the game, and Austria – France’s traditional enemy, and her queen’s homeland – onside. But Britain is also moving. She doesn’t want Russia to be moving southwards to turn the Black Sea into a Russian lake, but more importantly, the Dutch don’t want this – since, as usual, they’re spinning Ottoman straw into gold.
On their own, the Dutch are not really a problem. Their empire is extensive, but they themselves aren’t really a threat to France. But the Anglo-Dutch hostility of the 1770s has given way to a friendlier 1780s. And another significant Dutch ally, just happens to be the aging king of Prussia.
But its not so simple as all that. The king of Prussia has no intention of returning to his countrymen’s favorite planet just so the Dutch can reap the rewards. He himself is no great fan of the British, partly due to his father’s distaste for their Hannoverian cousins and partly because he sees Britain’s gains in the Seven Years’ War as a betrayal since Britain expanded her empire at the cost of Prussian blood and gold. There are things he wants as well. Namely, some territory on the Baltic. Standing in the way of this is Poland, backed by Austria, and Sweden, ruled by his nephew, backed by France.
The king of France, however, is seeing a third option. Russia doesn’t want him (France) to get involved on the Ottoman behalf. Nor does he wish to piss off Britain by aiding in the destruction of the Porte. So, French diplomats are sent scurrying to Florence, Naples, Madrid and Genoa.
Finally, the plan that the French outline to Prince Baryatinski is as follows: France will be conveniently hard-of-hearing should Russia and Austria go to war against the Ottomans. But, France’s neutrality will cost. While the Ottomans are kept busy fighting in the Balkans, a loose alliance of Bourbon kingdoms, the grand duke of Tuscany and the Genoese doge, will target the Ottoman holdings in North Africa. The Genovesi have their eye on Bône while the French aim at Egypt and Cyprus. At the same time, France will induce Bavaria and Poland to play watchdog to make sure that Prussia makes no sudden moves.
In France, the law for the population of the colonies is signed into effect at the Tuileries. This law, popularly called the ‘Tuileries Act’, is concerned with the settling of French citizens in the overseas territories of the crown, particularly in Louisiana. Of course, the duc de Choiseul had a similar idea for the early 1760s as a way of increasing France’s colonies productivity. Unfortunately, King Louis XV had refused to sign off on it. Now, Louis XVI is revisiting the idea. Unlike Choiseul’s hastily planned idea, this has been in the works since the dawn of the current decade (or, if you believe some of the king’s inner circle, since the king was dauphin). The carrot with which Louis is baiting this hook? Land. There’s a shitload of it in the Louisiana territories. And many peasants might be enticed over the Atlantic by the prospect of being able to own a farm six times as large as what they would in France.
And this is no idle, vanity project of the king. His ministers have already managed to drum up nearly 10000 settlers to leave for the New World, with still more wishing to sign on. Granted, not all these settlers are French (and many of those who are, come from Lorraine or Alsace), many are leaving (or are enticed to leave) the Rhineland electorates of Köln, Trier and Mainz, or even the French-adjacent Swiss cantons. The king and his ministers have the idea of settling more French subjects in the recently returned Louisiana territory – partially to discourage incursion from the former British colonies, and partially with the intention of letting Louisiana finally turn a profit for Paris.
Likewise, many of the Acadians that had fled the British invasion of Canada in the 1760s, whom Choiseul had settled in France, with the intention of returning them to the New World as soon as able – something he was unable to do thanks to his fall from power – are offered the equitable value of the landholdings abandoned in Acadie in Louisiana. Thus, it is a piebald host of at least twelve thousand who leave for Louisiana in batches over the next year.
However, the king and his minister plan for these settlers to be rather after the mould of the British yeoman farmers rather than further entrenching the plantations of Lower Louisiana, so most of these will be settled around the towns of St Louis and St Geneviève in Upper Louisiana. Of course, the bad harvests in France are likewise an incentive for many to undertake the arduous Atlantic crossing in the hopes of a better life.
Louisiana, though, is not alone in this. The French colony of Guiane in South America is likewise seeing a boom in population. In a similar fashion to the recruitment for Louisiana, the Crown has managed to tempt not only Frenchmen but also still more foreigners – Venetians, Swedes and Germans – at least four thousand – to emigrate to the colonies of French South America and the sugar islands in the Caribbean. Granted, when Choiseul did this twenty years ago, it was hasty, badly-planned and resulted in a large miscarriage with only about a thousand of the settlers back then surviving the various tropical dangers. This time, it is better planned, better organized and far more successful – even though disease is still the chief cause of the death of at least a quarter of the settlers. The survivors, on the other hand, go on to thrive.
Of course, with France now having more ‘interest’ in the New World, it is quite necessary for France to start building up her navy. Now this is something that generally progresses by alternating between frenetic activity and ships rotting at anchor. Although France is well aware of Britannia ruling the waves, she’ll settle under Louis XVI for a close second. And as a result, the ports at Cherbourg and at Le Havre are extended and expanded. New trade treaties are signed with Sweden and Denmark for the import of timber and tar.
Not only that, but the secretariat of the navy has been shaken up of late. The previous Minister de la Marine – Charles de la Croix, Marquis de Castries – is actually a soldier, who simply found his way into the naval ministry. The king regards him as diligent, but not necessarily the man to oversee France’s naval comeback. So, after politely edging him out, the king appoints the man who directed several naval encounters for the rebellious colonials of late, against the English. After all, if you want to match the British navy, who better to appoint than someone who has actually beaten them? And so, Luc Urbain de Bouëxic, comte de Guichen is appointed as the new minister de la marine, however, Guichen was born in 1712, and while effective, the real minds behind the French naval comeback of the 1780s are the so-called triumvirat – Charles Henri Hector, comte d'Estaing; François Joseph Paul, comte de Grasse; and the explorer, Louis Antoine, comte de Bougainville.
Louis’ reason for these appointments? Guichen is old, and while, of late, his recent naval enterprises consist of defending Ouessant against the British in 1778, fighting the British to a draw off Martinique three times alone in 1780, harrying the British in the Bay of Biscay in 1781. He, like Estaing and Grasse, offered his services to the American government. The king, while being aware that he cannot decorate Guichen for any of his actions against the British, since he didn’t fight as a Frenchman, does reward him with the Cordon Rouge as well as the appointment to the ministry, which includes a seat on the Grand Conseil.
Estaing, on the other hand, has not had favourable reports of his behaviour circulating the court. In fact, many of his subordinates at court can’t help themselves but maligning him at every turn. Estaing successfully blockaded Richard, 1st Earl Howe, in New York harbour with a handful of ships. With that same handful, he gave battle off the coast of Rhode Island to Admiral Howe, although a storm which blew up during the battle resulted in an inconclusive result. Over the winter of 1778/1779 he had overseen the laying down of the first ships of the Appalachian Royal Navy (previously, the ships being used, were simply purchased from friendly powers) in Boston, before sailing for the West Indies in the thaw.
There, he was defeated in his attempts to relieve St-Lucie from the British, but was successful in capturing the islands of St Vincent and Grenada, where he defeated Admiral John Byron with numerical superiority. Once the two islands he had captured were secured, he made for Savannah in Georgia, for an offensive against the British held city. However, the besiegement failed, although Estaing himself was severely wounded – his one leg had to be amputated as a result – in the assault.
Thomas Jefferson, who had since replaced Sir Benjamin Franklin as ambassador to the Tuileries, on hearing of d’Estaing’s disgrace, commented that “if such be the case, then we [Appalachia] would be most grateful should France recommend still more gifted admirals for us”. Many speculate that the king appointed Estaing for this reason.
Grasse, has the most impressive record, since he fought at Ouessant, Grenada, St-Lucie, Martinique and Fort Royal, against the British with varying success. But his great victory, for which the Appalachian government has named him Earl Chesapeake (mangled in French to Comte Chessepique) was his defeat of the British at the Battle of the Virginia Capes (better known as the Battle of Chesapeake Bay). And yet, his defeat by Admiral Hood at the Battle of St Kitts and his defeat and capture by Admiral Rodney at the Battle of the Saintes have not diminished the regard in which he is held, in spite of the court martial for the surrender to Rodney. As a further sign of the esteem in which they are held, Guichen is named Amiral de France in addition to this – the king had to request the resignation of his bastard cousin, the duc de Penthièvre, for the post to become available – while the members of the triumvirat are appointed to the French admiralty (only Bougainville will ever set foot on a ship’s deck again).
In the meantime, Russia makes her approach to France. Emperor Pyotr III sends, as envoy to the Tuileries, Prince Ivan Baryatinski, to negotiate the idea of Russia’s war against the Ottoman Empire. This is more to ensure that France won’t assist her old Muslim ally rather than in the hope that France will join Russia. Therefore, Baryatinski is rather surprised when the French minister of war broaches the topic of a French invasion of Egypt.
The reason for this? The sultan, Abdülhamid I has been busy reforming the Ottoman armed forces, in spite of his being a pacifist. He has found it to be an Augean task, since the reforms are, courtesy of his neighbour to the north, running tandem with the on-again-off-again war with Russia. In implementing his reforms, Abdülhamid has turned to his ancient ally, the most Christian King of France. France is in possession of one of the best armies in Europe at the moment, and who better then, to supervise the improvements to the Ottoman military?
But the king has been hearing other reports about the state of the Ottoman military and of the Ottoman empire in general. As old as the alliance with the Ottomans is, Louis is also looking around as well as forward and back. He has been told of whispers in the corridors of power about the state of affairs in Europe. Russia already has Poland – France’s other traditional ally – out of the game, and Austria – France’s traditional enemy, and her queen’s homeland – onside. But Britain is also moving. She doesn’t want Russia to be moving southwards to turn the Black Sea into a Russian lake, but more importantly, the Dutch don’t want this – since, as usual, they’re spinning Ottoman straw into gold.
On their own, the Dutch are not really a problem. Their empire is extensive, but they themselves aren’t really a threat to France. But the Anglo-Dutch hostility of the 1770s has given way to a friendlier 1780s. And another significant Dutch ally, just happens to be the aging king of Prussia.
But its not so simple as all that. The king of Prussia has no intention of returning to his countrymen’s favorite planet just so the Dutch can reap the rewards. He himself is no great fan of the British, partly due to his father’s distaste for their Hannoverian cousins and partly because he sees Britain’s gains in the Seven Years’ War as a betrayal since Britain expanded her empire at the cost of Prussian blood and gold. There are things he wants as well. Namely, some territory on the Baltic. Standing in the way of this is Poland, backed by Austria, and Sweden, ruled by his nephew, backed by France.
The king of France, however, is seeing a third option. Russia doesn’t want him (France) to get involved on the Ottoman behalf. Nor does he wish to piss off Britain by aiding in the destruction of the Porte. So, French diplomats are sent scurrying to Florence, Naples, Madrid and Genoa.
Finally, the plan that the French outline to Prince Baryatinski is as follows: France will be conveniently hard-of-hearing should Russia and Austria go to war against the Ottomans. But, France’s neutrality will cost. While the Ottomans are kept busy fighting in the Balkans, a loose alliance of Bourbon kingdoms, the grand duke of Tuscany and the Genoese doge, will target the Ottoman holdings in North Africa. The Genovesi have their eye on Bône while the French aim at Egypt and Cyprus. At the same time, France will induce Bavaria and Poland to play watchdog to make sure that Prussia makes no sudden moves.
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Excellent thread, and what a cliffhanger!
Minor French-language nitpick: Chèzpique looks weird, it would probably be more like Chessepique. Also, while you are at the French navy, some interesting people to include would be the naval engineer Sané and his mathematician partner de Borda, the OTL fathers of some excellent ship designs in the 1780s. (And Suffren is also obviously an interesting figure).
Minor French-language nitpick: Chèzpique looks weird, it would probably be more like Chessepique. Also, while you are at the French navy, some interesting people to include would be the naval engineer Sané and his mathematician partner de Borda, the OTL fathers of some excellent ship designs in the 1780s. (And Suffren is also obviously an interesting figure).
Duly noted. Thanks for that, I just sorta went with what sounded most likely.
It could also get mangled into "Chaise-à-piques".
Fair enough.
Special thanks to Cornelis and Circonflexe for inspiring this edition:
1785
The king pays a visit to the new and improved ports at Cherbourg, Brest and Le Havre. This is the first time Louis XVI has seen the sea. Accompanying him is his eldest son, the 13-years-old dauphin, Louis Robert, as well as the newly-succeeded Louis Philippe II, duc d’Orléans. The Mesdames les Tantes refer to it, loudly proclaiming that ‘our father never journeyed further than Fontainebleau in peacetime’, and surprisingly, Monsieur comes back with the retort ‘and see what that did to fair France’. But the journey to the coast is more than merely the king travelling to inspect the ongoing works, he is taking the Comte d’Estaing with him, as well as the newly-minted Inspecteur de la Construction Navale et Maritime, Chevalier Jean-Charles de Borda.
Borda served under Estaing in the late war, and during peacetime, has been tasked with improving waterwheels and pumping mechanisms with the aim of draining former marshland. However, Borda is appointed on his own merits, not Estaing’s recommendations. Now, newly appointed as Inspector is to oversee the laying down of new ships for the revitalized French navy. The Inspector is no idle dilettante either, he is a published author, since in 1778 he published a work with the cumbersome title ‘Voyage fait par ordre du roi en 1771 et 1772, en diverses parties de l'Europe et de l'Amérique, pour vérifier l'utilité de plusieurs méthodes et instruments servant à déterminer la latitude et la longitude, etc (Journey by order of the king in 1771-1772, in diverse parts of Europe and the Americas, for verifying the use of various methods and instruments to determine the latitude and longitude)’, which in the scientific community, as well as for the French naval and maritime communities, became a best-seller, since it made for much more accurate calculations of the lunar distances.
These new ships to be laid down, the construction of which de Borda will be overseeing, are to follow the specifications of his colleague in Paris, Jacques Noël Sané, who in 1782 published his designs for the 74-gun ships-of-the-line in a class he called the ‘Téméraire’ (rash or reckless), in 1785 his ‘Océan’ designs for 118-gun ships-of-the-line, both of which have since been standardised by royal decree. Sané is currently working on designs for a third class, called the ‘Batailleur ‘(quarrelsome or contentious), which will be a revision of his earlier designs that he made for frigates carrying 46-guns apiece.
During the visit, in the presence of the king and dauphin, two ships are laid down (with another the day ‘Méduse’ before, while two more (the ‘Cerbère’ and the ‘Plûton’) the day after) – which the royals are asked to name. The king names the one – a 118-gun ship of the line – Charlemagne – while the dauphin chooses the name ‘Indomptable’ for the 80-gun ship-of-the-line. Of these five ships, it is the Méduse which will have the most famous end.
The visit of the king also sees the inauguration – although neither the king nor any of his travelling companions will be present – of the lighthouse at Ouessant, designed by Sané’s former employer, the marine engineer in Brest, Antoine Choquet de Lindu.
Nor is the French navy the only armed forces seeing improvement. The reason Orléans was included in the travel party is due to a recent discovery made under his aegis at the Palais Royal. In the quest to create a new carbine Orléans, at the time the duc de Chartres, patronized his arquebusier et fourbisseur (an armourer), Jean le Page, to create a new sort of carbine for the army (of which Orléans is a Colonel-General des Hussars). The story goes that it started out more as a bet between the king and Chartres to see whose armorers (Le Page versus the king’s Nicolas-Noël Boutet of Versailles) could improve on the customary musket used by the cavalry. Le Page (thanks to his collaboration with the Orléans-household physician, Claude Louis Berthollet and the nobleman-chemist, Antoine-Laurent de Lavoisier) has won the bet for his master by managing to create a percussion-lock carbine. This new and improved carbine dramatically improved the efficiency of the French cavalry to near deadly-accuracy.
Lavoisier is already known to the king, since he has been a tax-farmer since the 1770s, and was bemedalled by Louis XV for his work on urban street lighting in 1766. In that capacity, he commissioned the construction of a wall around Paris in order to more efficiently tax the goods being transported in and out of the capital. Then, in the start of the current decade, his interests have shifted to agriculture and applying many of the agronomical ideas of Duhamel de Monceau. However, he has published a paper in which he points out that in spite of the good that could come from the farming reforms, the tax-farming system in use left so little money for the tenants that to expect them to concurrently subsist and improve their agricultural efforts on, is sheer madness. But that doesn’t mean that Lavoisier is finished with that sideline. In fact, he is currently busy with a paper encouraging the main landholders – the aristocracy and the clergy – to employ these improved methods on their estates.
But Lavoisier is also a scientist of note, he holds a chair at the Académie, and is responsible for recognizing ‘oxygen’ and ‘hydrogen’, and has been one of four Maîtres de l'Ordonnance that has overseen the dramatic improvement of the quality of French gunpowder since 1775.
So, all in all, martially – with France having better gunpowder, a better navy and better firearms than a decade previously – the war in North Africa is going to certainly be the start of something new…
1785
The king pays a visit to the new and improved ports at Cherbourg, Brest and Le Havre. This is the first time Louis XVI has seen the sea. Accompanying him is his eldest son, the 13-years-old dauphin, Louis Robert, as well as the newly-succeeded Louis Philippe II, duc d’Orléans. The Mesdames les Tantes refer to it, loudly proclaiming that ‘our father never journeyed further than Fontainebleau in peacetime’, and surprisingly, Monsieur comes back with the retort ‘and see what that did to fair France’. But the journey to the coast is more than merely the king travelling to inspect the ongoing works, he is taking the Comte d’Estaing with him, as well as the newly-minted Inspecteur de la Construction Navale et Maritime, Chevalier Jean-Charles de Borda.
Borda served under Estaing in the late war, and during peacetime, has been tasked with improving waterwheels and pumping mechanisms with the aim of draining former marshland. However, Borda is appointed on his own merits, not Estaing’s recommendations. Now, newly appointed as Inspector is to oversee the laying down of new ships for the revitalized French navy. The Inspector is no idle dilettante either, he is a published author, since in 1778 he published a work with the cumbersome title ‘Voyage fait par ordre du roi en 1771 et 1772, en diverses parties de l'Europe et de l'Amérique, pour vérifier l'utilité de plusieurs méthodes et instruments servant à déterminer la latitude et la longitude, etc (Journey by order of the king in 1771-1772, in diverse parts of Europe and the Americas, for verifying the use of various methods and instruments to determine the latitude and longitude)’, which in the scientific community, as well as for the French naval and maritime communities, became a best-seller, since it made for much more accurate calculations of the lunar distances.
These new ships to be laid down, the construction of which de Borda will be overseeing, are to follow the specifications of his colleague in Paris, Jacques Noël Sané, who in 1782 published his designs for the 74-gun ships-of-the-line in a class he called the ‘Téméraire’ (rash or reckless), in 1785 his ‘Océan’ designs for 118-gun ships-of-the-line, both of which have since been standardised by royal decree. Sané is currently working on designs for a third class, called the ‘Batailleur ‘(quarrelsome or contentious), which will be a revision of his earlier designs that he made for frigates carrying 46-guns apiece.
During the visit, in the presence of the king and dauphin, two ships are laid down (with another the day ‘Méduse’ before, while two more (the ‘Cerbère’ and the ‘Plûton’) the day after) – which the royals are asked to name. The king names the one – a 118-gun ship of the line – Charlemagne – while the dauphin chooses the name ‘Indomptable’ for the 80-gun ship-of-the-line. Of these five ships, it is the Méduse which will have the most famous end.
The visit of the king also sees the inauguration – although neither the king nor any of his travelling companions will be present – of the lighthouse at Ouessant, designed by Sané’s former employer, the marine engineer in Brest, Antoine Choquet de Lindu.
Nor is the French navy the only armed forces seeing improvement. The reason Orléans was included in the travel party is due to a recent discovery made under his aegis at the Palais Royal. In the quest to create a new carbine Orléans, at the time the duc de Chartres, patronized his arquebusier et fourbisseur (an armourer), Jean le Page, to create a new sort of carbine for the army (of which Orléans is a Colonel-General des Hussars). The story goes that it started out more as a bet between the king and Chartres to see whose armorers (Le Page versus the king’s Nicolas-Noël Boutet of Versailles) could improve on the customary musket used by the cavalry. Le Page (thanks to his collaboration with the Orléans-household physician, Claude Louis Berthollet and the nobleman-chemist, Antoine-Laurent de Lavoisier) has won the bet for his master by managing to create a percussion-lock carbine. This new and improved carbine dramatically improved the efficiency of the French cavalry to near deadly-accuracy.
Lavoisier is already known to the king, since he has been a tax-farmer since the 1770s, and was bemedalled by Louis XV for his work on urban street lighting in 1766. In that capacity, he commissioned the construction of a wall around Paris in order to more efficiently tax the goods being transported in and out of the capital. Then, in the start of the current decade, his interests have shifted to agriculture and applying many of the agronomical ideas of Duhamel de Monceau. However, he has published a paper in which he points out that in spite of the good that could come from the farming reforms, the tax-farming system in use left so little money for the tenants that to expect them to concurrently subsist and improve their agricultural efforts on, is sheer madness. But that doesn’t mean that Lavoisier is finished with that sideline. In fact, he is currently busy with a paper encouraging the main landholders – the aristocracy and the clergy – to employ these improved methods on their estates.
But Lavoisier is also a scientist of note, he holds a chair at the Académie, and is responsible for recognizing ‘oxygen’ and ‘hydrogen’, and has been one of four Maîtres de l'Ordonnance that has overseen the dramatic improvement of the quality of French gunpowder since 1775.
So, all in all, martially – with France having better gunpowder, a better navy and better firearms than a decade previously – the war in North Africa is going to certainly be the start of something new…
Since the dauphin is at his majority now, I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions who could be proposed as marriage candidate for him. Obviously it's been ongoing since he was born, but now that he's a teenager, these things are going to be somewhat more serious
I think since they already have an Austrian alliance, I guess they would go for an Appalachian or Bavarian alliance. Unless there is a chance to inherit some Rhenish state, of course.
Appalachia's a bit far to be of much use. Plus she's Protestant, and I sort of have the marriages of the Princess Royal and the Prince of Roanoke planned, and it's not to France. Bavaria's nice, since it's in the French camp plus conveniently, the daughter is Antoinette's niece. I considered Poland, but I figured five matches (actual and planned) in the last fifty years is a bit much (since then we have Louis XV+Marie Leszczynska, the dauphin+Maria Josefa, the duc de Berri+Maria Amalie and the planned matches that were on the cards between Mme Adelaide and Prince Xavier of Saxony and Mme Zéphyrine/Clothilde and FAIII).
There would be Savoy too, but I am not sure France wants them as allies.
No, they wouldn't, since Savoy is at the moment more in the Austrian camp, although a match with Maria Teresa Benedetta of Chablais isn't out of the question...
Out of curiosity, what about the generation of Badener princesses that included the queen of Bavaria, the Russian tsarina and the queen of Sweden? OTL's queen of Bavaria, Karoline of Baden, was originally considered for either the duc de Berri or the duc d'Enghien, so a French match isn't entirely out of left field. She's well connected to the non-Austrian element of Germany - if France moves away from Austria again (since the Bourbon-Habsburg rapprochement failed most spectacularly in Paris) - with cousins and sisters who are well placed in Prussia, Sweden, Russia, Bavaria, Brunswick, Hesse and Weimar. Her conversion wouldn't be an insurmountable object, since I have a feeling that nobody's going to put too much back into it "petite but of a good house" and she's fertile - I mean OTL she had a fair few children, of which two sets of twins, even though both her sons were stillborn...
And then of course, there's the fact that when Baden ended up with no legitimate male heirs left, they jumped through hoops to prevent an inheritance by Bavaria through marriage, in spite of Baden being governed by salic law.
longsword14
Banned
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Are the barrels rifled too? How was a service rifle using blackpowder possible without a modified projectile?
Thanks for your TL ! Make good use of the Lepage (Orleans ?) carbine !
Hadn't thought about it. I just thought it would make for a cool development in the TL. I also don't think Orléans-Louis XVI were really thinking about that when they made the bet (supposedly), but I'm sure that Lepage-Berthollier-Lavoisier wouldn't have designed a weapon that had no projectiles it could fire - they all (Lavoisier and Lepage, at least) seem to be pretty thorough individuals, so they probably would've come up with a way to make it work. I'm afraid IDK much about (modern) firearms - besides load bullets, take aim, pull trigger, fire - and still less about historical firearms, hence why I tended to focus more on the bet, Lavoisier's other endeavours and Lepage's job as armourer.
I'll try, I can't promise that the French army/cavalry will do the same.
Do you guys think that France will start sharing her innovations with her allies in the war to come - Spain and Naples' armies getting the Lepage-carbine, or the Genoese and Neapolitan fleets getting standardised a la Sané's designs?
Then the other question I have, France is pretty much riding high at the moment, but the last thing I want to do is to write a wank, I'd like it to remain realistic. I'm open to suggestions from you guys. You can either post them here or PM me.
A few questions for my readers:
1) Given the circumstances of the TL (equal taxation, less national debt due to non-involvement in the ARW etc), how likely is an alt-French Revolution to still occur? As I understand it, it was sort of a perfect storm scenario, but I don't know if the reasons contributing to it have simply been delayed or if they've been solved (sort of). For instance, the poor French harvests of the 1780s are still there, so is it more likely to be a rioting scenario? Or a full blown rebellion as OTL?
2.1) Most of your Napoleonic marechaux/personages were born in the 1760s and 1770s. I've already spoken of the Vicomtesse de Beauharnais (Josèphine), the bishop of Autun (Talleyrand) and Murat, but would be interested in bringing several others into the story: Private André Masséna (b.1758), dyer Jean Lannes (b.1769), and overseer of mines, Michel Ney (b.1769).
I figure Ney's position as Overseer of Mines and Forges could perhaps be used with the Lepage-carbine (maybe), but not sure how to overcome any of the three (four if Murat's included) lacking noble-enough heritage to advance beyond a certain point in the ranks. I can't make out when the army abolished this (I would imagine around about the 1790s, would it be impossible for a meritocracy to emerge in the '80s with the war against those in North Africa?)
2.2) Napoléon (because who can resist a French TL without him in?), Davout and some of the other marechaux are at least noble enough to attend the École Militaire (Davout was removed from active duty to his noble birth in the 1790s), but are they noble enough to rise as high as they did OTL, or is this requiring of a specific set of circumstances? (I figure with a war on, it's as the one character describes it (in a novel set in the Napoleonic Wars) that "wartime promotions are often just stepping into dead men's shoes" so they could rise some, just not necessarily as meteorically as OTL).
3) Would the dauphin, Louis Robert, becoming acquainted with Bessières who served in the Garde Constitutionelle du Roi OTL, be completely unlikely? Say Bessières rises to the rank of captain or does something that brings him to the Dauphin's attention, and we go from there?
Thanks in advance
1) Given the circumstances of the TL (equal taxation, less national debt due to non-involvement in the ARW etc), how likely is an alt-French Revolution to still occur? As I understand it, it was sort of a perfect storm scenario, but I don't know if the reasons contributing to it have simply been delayed or if they've been solved (sort of). For instance, the poor French harvests of the 1780s are still there, so is it more likely to be a rioting scenario? Or a full blown rebellion as OTL?
2.1) Most of your Napoleonic marechaux/personages were born in the 1760s and 1770s. I've already spoken of the Vicomtesse de Beauharnais (Josèphine), the bishop of Autun (Talleyrand) and Murat, but would be interested in bringing several others into the story: Private André Masséna (b.1758), dyer Jean Lannes (b.1769), and overseer of mines, Michel Ney (b.1769).
I figure Ney's position as Overseer of Mines and Forges could perhaps be used with the Lepage-carbine (maybe), but not sure how to overcome any of the three (four if Murat's included) lacking noble-enough heritage to advance beyond a certain point in the ranks. I can't make out when the army abolished this (I would imagine around about the 1790s, would it be impossible for a meritocracy to emerge in the '80s with the war against those in North Africa?)
2.2) Napoléon (because who can resist a French TL without him in?), Davout and some of the other marechaux are at least noble enough to attend the École Militaire (Davout was removed from active duty to his noble birth in the 1790s), but are they noble enough to rise as high as they did OTL, or is this requiring of a specific set of circumstances? (I figure with a war on, it's as the one character describes it (in a novel set in the Napoleonic Wars) that "wartime promotions are often just stepping into dead men's shoes" so they could rise some, just not necessarily as meteorically as OTL).
3) Would the dauphin, Louis Robert, becoming acquainted with Bessières who served in the Garde Constitutionelle du Roi OTL, be completely unlikely? Say Bessières rises to the rank of captain or does something that brings him to the Dauphin's attention, and we go from there?
Thanks in advance
The usual consensus about alt-Napoléon is to block his promotion in the French army and send him on an adventure abroad instead (the Ottoman empire and the USA are very popular, I remember seeing India or South America quoted once or twice as well). He could have played a delayed Lafayette-like role, but now that the USA are freedomed he could maybe play an alt-Bolivar? (I don't think the Bolivar-San Martin generation could exist without the Bonaparte example).
Non-noble French officers of OTL simply ain't gonna be officers in this timeline,especially if the wars aren't as intense and prolonged as they were like OTL.A lot of them probably won't join the army to begin with.I suggest they either make cameo appearances or if they are actually lower soldiers,have them promoted to junior officer rank at most.As for Napoleon,it depends on who Napoleon makes friends with.There's a good amount of patronage going around in the Ancien Regime.