TL 191 DBWI: has anyone seen the After The End Thread?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by weaverj, May 21, 2016.

  1. weaverj Spoiler Alert: GET OFF THE FENCE!

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    most people on this site, me included, have read Turtledove's Tl 191 series of books where the North wins the civil war. well, on this site, there is a thread that shows what happened after the events of In at the Death. it was created by David Bar Elias and it is probably the best interpretation if the events of TL 191 after the fall of Berlin. im not gonna say to much, but alot of interesting events happen such as the US-USSR cold war, an organization called "NATO" is formed, and other stuff.
     
  2. theg*ddam*hoi2fan Beware of the Leopard

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    I've read it. I like it, though the treatment of Asia was fairly depressing. Korea divided, China goes Communist, South-East Asia either does the same or becomes underdeveloped and corrupt. Or both...

    Quite different from TTL. OK, the regimes that Japan set up in Indochina and Indonesia have been fairly authoritarian, but at least they encouraged development and managed to get decent standards of living for their people. And even though Japan isn't the sole top dog anymore, the Greater East Asia Treaty Organisation's still one of the major world powers.

    I found it funny how DBE had Japan as being the big Asian automobile manufacturer, though - no hint of Indonesia Automotive in that TL, let alone their range of electric cars.
     
  3. weaverj Spoiler Alert: GET OFF THE FENCE!

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    i felt bad for Asia too. remember how they mentioned what happened in Cambodia? that was some Freedomite-crap there.
     
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  4. Mister Abbadon Well-Known Member

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    It really is a Depressing Timeline. I mean Turtledove's Series ends on a fairly high note Compared to OTL, The Fascist powers are wholly defeated, and it looks as though the communist world and capitalist worlds will finally get along at last with the whole UN formation.


    As brutal as the whole "Vietnam war" thing was to read, it certainly was original.
     
  5. weaverj Spoiler Alert: GET OFF THE FENCE!

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    Agreed, the Vietnam portion was one of the best parts of the series, along with the Korean War. the Vietnam portion sort of gave me vibes of the Fourth Pacific War at some points, and i know this mainly due to my Grandfather being a veteran of said War, but it is still very original either way.
     
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  6. theg*ddam*hoi2fan Beware of the Leopard

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    I know what you mean. The quagmire nature of the war was very similar...

    OTOH, that war was kind of hopeful. Imperial Japan and the GEATO nations working together with the US to stamp out the rightist, white supremacist regime in Australasia...it boded well for the future. Especially after the way GEATO and America skirmished with one another during the 50s and early 60s. In the TL, on the other hand, the Vietnam war was shown to be two utterly unsympathetic sides, both propped up by superpowers...
     
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  7. weaverj Spoiler Alert: GET OFF THE FENCE!

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    same case with the Korean war section of the thread. the only real difference is that it ends in a stalemate. aside from that, both involve a communist north and capitalist south and both are in asia.
     
  8. m0585 Well-Known Member

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    I found it odd that the U.S. would rapidly demobilize after the, um, Second World War even though the Soviet Union was clearly becoming a threat and the U.S. was occupying Japan and parts of Germany. FDR was very naïve as president; though he made he an outstanding Assistant Secretary of War in OTL. I do like how the U.S. won the space race. Wish that was the case in OTL; the Germans only beat us by mere months though.
     
  9. theg*ddam*hoi2fan Beware of the Leopard

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    One thing I found depressing was the depiction of America. I mean, OTL America is probably the leading example of a welfare state, they've got:

    The Federal Health Service, with free healthcare for all
    The Federal Broadcast Service
    The Federal Infrastructure Maintenance Corps
    A comprehensive federal old-age pension

    Among other things. And the power of unions in the US is incredible. The Socialist Party's managed to really make its mark on America, and social democratic institutions and ideals have spread to America's allies in South America, Ireland and England. Yet the TL depicts America as falling prey to the worst excesses of capitalism, like OTL Germany's 'Wernernomics', and exporting American jobs to poorer countries.

    Thank God none of that happened OTL. I mean, in America people with just a high school diploma can get well-paid jobs. In TTL, the writer has college degrees being needed for minimum-wage work...
     
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  10. GeorgeUK Massively Multiplayer Contributor

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    What I couldn't fathom was how a victorious Britain would wither and decline like that. First, you get that idiot, Beechwood I think his name was, closing off half the rail network; even lines like the Somerset & Dorset and the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton have proved their worth as diversionary routes; the Channel Tunnel doesn't get built until 20 years after it did OTL, then the motoring and manufacturing industries decline one by one. We even have just one World Cup ITTL instead of the 4 we've accumulated since 1974 (as well as 2 European Championships, whereas we don't have any ITTL) and we're even shown as being rubbish in penalty shoot-outs!
     
  11. weaverj Spoiler Alert: GET OFF THE FENCE!

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    one thing about asia that i remember was the division of Korea. it was divided into two dictatorships, sure the south got better, but the north just got worse. it sorta reminds me of Man in the High Castle, where the Entente wins the Second Great War that takes place in an alternate Germany that is divided between France and Russia for one part of the book, and the other part is in an America divided between the Freedomites and the British. has anyone else read that? i wonder what that book would be like in the TL 191 universe?
     
  12. theg*ddam*hoi2fan Beware of the Leopard

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    I can't help but feel that the Vietnam and Korean wars were based heavily on the wars Germany got into in the 60s and 70s: the colonial conflicts in Africa, and the fighting to try to hold Austria-Hungary together...
     
  13. DanielXie Well-Known Member

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    Well at least Europe in TTL has a somewhat functioning welfare state.

    But what is really depressing is the 2016 elections in TTL US. Seriously we have a pseudo-Freedomite(or was it Fascist) vs. a crook. And having the various crypto-freedomite "alt-right" movements pop up to prop him up is a big stretch.

    And the Socialist guy that ran against both of them ended up losing. And I don't like how the Green party is portrayed as a bunch of anti-vax crazies(in contrast to OTL, where Ralph Nader had a great tenure as president)

    Thank goodness neither of these candiates exist OTL
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
  14. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    Well, at least the Freedomites wanted to have an industrial society, the "Khmer Rouge" wanted to turn the clock back to 1000 A.D in Cambodia.
     
  15. BiteNibbleChomp Currently faking a fishing trip

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    I always found that even though the Russians and the USA fought so many wars on behalf of allies, such as Korea and that ridiculous Vietnam thing, no war ever openly occurred between the two powers. The guy who made After the End made it quite clear that there was a hell of a lot of distrust, so why no war? At least in O*TL, the USA and CSA had fights every now and then, but that doesn't happen between these two hateful powers. Seems quite unbelievable.

    - BNC

    (O*TL referring to the OTL of the DBWI, so TL-191)