The World without the Kalashnikov

NewSweden

NewSweden

In an hypothetical alternate world, What if the Kalashnikov was never created for some reason, what would this world look like with out one of the most popular, and biggest produced assault rifle?
This was a question someone asked me on Skype an I wanted to know what the internet thought of this!
 

Coiler

Not very different-the finalists for the competition won by the AK all looked and worked similarly, and the Cold War means that such a weapon is going to be produced and distributed in giant quantities anyway.
 

Orcbuster

Completely identical. Small arms development was (and still is to this day) a pretty exhausted field at that point (meaning there hasn't been much progress since the 20s-30s). Something similar would have been adopted. The AK is basically taking an existing concept, simplifying it and streamlining it for mass production.
 

trajen777

Banned
Germany already had the STG 44 -- was in producion and was widely used in WW2 -- some believe the AK was derived from this gun -- very similar in looks


The StG 44 (abbreviation of Sturmgewehr 44, "assault rifle 44") is a German selective-fire rifle developed during World War II that was the first of its kind to see major deployment and is considered to be the first modern assault rifle.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
No different at all. As mentioned, the Sturmgewer 44. While not mechanically similar, the importance is that it was doctrinally similar.

The intermediate cartridge concept predates the assault rifle, and the basic design came together with the Sturmgewer.

The AK is just a Russianization of the package to suit their materièl doctrine and production capabilities. If not the AK, we'd have something else that was functionally identical.
 

Cryhavoc101

The SKS probably becomes the 'weapon of the Freedom Fighter' and is developed into something not a million miles away from the AK47

It used the same round and while the AK initially replaced the SMG in Russian Service while the SKS replaced Bolt action rifles and SLRs such as the SVT-40 in Russian Service and would ultimately be replaced by the Ak47 when its manufacturing issues were resolved in the late 50s - No Ak47 - further development of the SKS and it becomes an assault rifle over time.

2008-02-04_213645_converted_SKS_style-01.jpg


Which by the 1990s has developed into this (not sure why the picture is so large?)

maxresdefault.jpg
 

tomo pauk

The ex-Yugo copy of the SKS was well regarded for it's accuracy in the former brotherly republics. The M-70 (copy of AK-47) - not so much.
 

Asp

Probably wider distribution of the PPSH-41 'pappsha' in a lot of third world conflicts. It was a pretty user-friendly, rugged automatic weapon.

300px-PPSh-41_from_soviet.jpg
 

Obergruppenführer Smith

Banned
FBKampfer said:
No different at all. As mentioned, the Sturmgewer 44. While not mechanically similar, the importance is that it was doctrinally similar.

The intermediate cartridge concept predates the assault rifle, and the basic design came together with the Sturmgewer.

The AK is just a Russianization of the package to suit their materièl doctrine and production capabilities. If not the AK, we'd have something else that was functionally identical.
Click to expand...

Not at all. StG and AK started from opposite ends in terms of doctrine. StG was "how do we give more firepower to our rifleman" while AK was "how do we extend the range of our SMGs". This isn't taking into account how there was the Federov that proved the concept of an intermediate cartridge select-fire rifle.
 

riggerrob

Neither PPSH nor Uzi would be a reasonable replacement for AK-47. Both submachineguns fired pistol ammunition (9x19mm Luger or 7.62mm) that had less muzzle energy, less range and less accuracy than assault rifles. If inaccurate ammo was not bad enough, the.majority of SMGs fire from an open bolt which "modified" the sight picture before the bullet exits the barrel.
Assault rifle ammo like the German Kurtz 7.92 or Warsaw 7.62 fired by SKS or AK-47. If AK had not succeeded, revolutionaries
would expel the evil colonists at the point of SKS bayonets.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
Obergruppenführer Smith said:
Not at all. StG and AK started from opposite ends in terms of doctrine. StG was "how do we give more firepower to our rifleman" while AK was "how do we extend the range of our SMGs". This isn't taking into account how there was the Federov that proved the concept of an intermediate cartridge select-fire rifle.
Click to expand...

Doctrinal origin admittedly was different, but both arrived at the same end from different directions.

Both were intended to serve as a standard issue weapon, forming the basis of an infantry squad's firepower, with other weapons serving in a supplementary capacity, the opposite of most automatic small arms the world over (the Soviets issuing whole units with SMG's late in the war, and German light machine gun doctrine being notable exceptions). The Germans were simply unable to realize this goal for obvious reasons.

Contrast this with German issue of submachine guns during WWII, United States, retaining the M1 post war as their standard issue, the UK's L1A1 SLR, and France's MAS 49. All other major militaries issued automatics (from submachine guns up to medium machine guns such as the M1919) as supplementary weapons, doctrinally intended to support the rifleman, prior to, during, and for at least a decade following the conclusion of WWII.
 
Osakadave

Osakadave

Coiler said:
Not very different-the finalists for the competition won by the AK all looked and worked similarly, and the Cold War means that such a weapon is going to be produced and distributed in giant quantities anyway.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Which one will depend. A nice POD is to have Sudaev survive and Kalashnikov die in 1946. That could give you an updated SA-44 with enough work.

As I understand it, the top competitors were Bulkin's AB-46 and Dementyev's AD-46. Both actually performed better in the first round of trials (the AK-46 actually failed and was only kept in consideration because Kalashnikov pulled strings). Bulkin's AB-57/TKB-415 design in the next round was most accurate with Dementyev's KB-P-410 in between.

If you can put together a good POD for the trials commission to accept something really forward thinking, Korobov's TKB-408 would be my personal fave.
 

Orcbuster

The AK-47 as it was adopted in 1947 was not the same thing we have today. At the time it was much more expensive to manufacture and not nearly as reliable. Much like the AR-15 it went through a long process of refinement (Stamped reciever instead of milled etc). The version that gave the AK it's reputation was the 1959 AKM variant. So in short an equivalent rifle would have been adopted and gone through the same process.

As for the SKS, the action wasn't much suited to full auto, which would result in trials of another rifle. The need for such a rifle was what prompted the development and adoption of the AK, not the other way around.

As an aside, the Yugo SKS is regarded as one of the more Subpar SKS rifle production variants. E-ger, polish, Russian, Chinese and Romanian are generally considered superior as yugo either has a very unwieldy riflegrenade attachment or lacks a chromed barrel, it is also generally more prone to corrosion. It is however one of the most available ones.
 
Catsmate

Catsmate

Another automat would have replaced it, the Soviets had multiple design teams developing them. Probably the AB-46, though if Sudayev had lived maybe a developed version of his AS-44, sans bipod.
 
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