The Rise of the Dragon: An Altered History of the World Wrestling Federation

[Unknown]

Good update; glad No Holds Barred won't be made, since that was a horrible movie. OTOH, it does deprive us of a good Wrestlecrap induction (though I'm sure there's enough ITTL)...

Steve Blackman as a Chuck Norris (or John Kreese; I'm sure McMahon's watched the Karate Kid ITTL) expy would be interesting...

Wonder who the other two are; one I'm guessing is Owen Hart (makes sense). As for the other one, can you give us a hint, @The Walkman...

Waiting for more...

Nice to know that the Million Dollar Man is still around (does he still kick the basketball out of the kid's hand? That was a very evil thing for him to do)...

 

[DakotaTimeTraveler]

Also, I'd like to address the post made by DakotaTimeTraveler about the anime series Maple Town. After some consideration and a little bit of messaging between us, I've decided to accept his post as canon to this TL. Any other ideas about things related or semi-related to Rise of the Dragon made by anyone else will need to be approved by me before being posted, however!

@The Walkman Thanks for being understanding.

In fact, he had Steamboat pay me a visit to emphasize never to add anything to someone else's TL again without asking first.

Anyway, that's quite an update. I remember in OTL that DiBiase had a rivalry going on with both Hogan and Savage, especially after the events of OTL Wrestlemania IV. Will Steamboat and DiBiase have a similar rivalry going on?

 

[71TheRoman]

Damn, 80s era Blackman is stacked! I would definitely put money on him joining Steamboat in some capacity--maybe even a title feud down the line?

Taking a completely unscientific shot in the dark, given that Vince was talking about "mid-card heels", I'll say the two men are Michael Hayes (perfect for building other dudes) and someone from an otherwise overlooked promotion so far: Fred Ottman. It'd be a whole year before his OTL WWF debut, at least.

And I surely can't be the only one waiting with baited breath for the debut of the legendary Ross Hart, can I?

Nice to know that the Million Dollar Man is still around (does he still kick the basketball out of the kid's hand? That was a very evil thing for him to do)...

Pretty confident this still happens. As you say, EVIL.

 

[eldandythedoubter]

Damn, 80s era Blackman is stacked! I would definitely put money on him joining Steamboat in some capacity--maybe even a title feud down the line?

Taking a completely unscientific shot in the dark, given that Vince was talking about "mid-card heels", I'll say the two men are Michael Hayes (perfect for building other dudes) and someone from an otherwise overlooked promotion so far: Fred Ottman. It'd be a whole year before his OTL WWF debut, at least.

And I surely can't be the only one waiting with baited breath for the debut of the legendary Ross Hart, can I?


Pretty confident this still happens. As you say, EVIL.

http://tdewrestling.com/post/144470030289/evil-indeed

 

[The Walkman]

Apologies about my absence. I'll spare everyone the details, but I will say there was a laptop connection issue, a good amount of frustration and cursing while trying to fix it, and elation when my friend fixed it 2 days ago. Needless to say, it's been a roller coaster ride.

The next update should be done in a few days! Until then, question time:

All things Asian fad could lead to some major changes to anime distribution. Some of the cult 90s anime will definitely have more of a chance of going mainstream earlier. Pokemon gets even bigger for example.

Clubs like the UK AnimeLeague I'm a member of will certainly start to pop up sooner, mid nineties, rather than early noughties.

Loved this update!

With anime increasing in mainstream popularity due to the "All Things Asian" fad, I'm wondering how evangelical Christians are reacting.

Before anyone writes this off, keep in mind that there was a moral panic they fueled about Dungeons and Dragons that ran throughout the 1980s and 1990s. There were also some books and documentaries done by concerned evangelicals about 1980s toylines/cartoons such as Masters of the Universe, Thundercats, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, etc. over not just violence but occult content brainwashing impressionable young children.

With entertainment coming from a completely different country and culture, especially one that is largely Buddhist and Shinto, could we be seeing another moral panic on par with DnD?

All great questions and points, and we'll be seeing a big update about the Asian Fad and why it starts to die down once we reach 1990 or so...

Is Steamboat still the reigning champ or has someone else claimed the belt?

Oh, Steamboat may get down every now and again, but he's still the champ. And he intends to stay on top for a long time, if you know what I mean.

I always liked Blackman I approve of this development.

I also liked Blackman a lot, he always struck me as someone who would have done well in an era where the midcard wasn't so crowded like it was in the Attitude Era. If Blackman in his prime were wrestling in today's WWE, a reign as IC Champion or even NXT Champion wouldn't be out of the question.

Blackman vs Steamboat would work really well if done right the old mentor and student stick would work in the 80s and if Blackman was as good as he was in the late 90's the lack of a gimmick isn't going to hurt him as much in this time period.

Hey, he's just now joining the company! Let's give him a few wins under his belt first...

Had similar idea Steamboat stable of three/four faces to take on heel stables "Dragons Dojo" or something suitable. Eventually Blackman jealous of Steamboats success splits and costs Dragon title joining suitable heel stable.

Hell Blackman could still do his entire "Lethal Weapon" stuff using martial arts weapons on heels, then faces when he turns.

For some reason I'm picturing a 80's version of the Shield but without you know the Roman hate.

The Dragon is flying solo for right now, but a faction of babyfaces in the WWF isn't out of the question for the future.

Also, "Dragon's Dojo" is a really nice name.

Good update; glad No Holds Barred won't be made, since that was a horrible movie. OTOH, it does deprive us of a good Wrestlecrap induction (though I'm sure there's enough ITTL)...

I think the real travesty is the loss of this scene of cinematic masterpiece.

Wonder who the other two are; one I'm guessing is Owen Hart (makes sense). As for the other one, can you give us a hint, @The Walkman...

I will reveal right now that Owen is one of the three planned acquisitions. The other two have had a fair bit of coverage in this TL so far, too, and one is a former world champion.

Nice to know that the Million Dollar Man is still around (does he still kick the basketball out of the kid's hand? That was a very evil thing for him to do)...

Yep, that still happens. The WWF also stage two other vignettes that don't exist IOTL, including one where DiBiase pays a woman $300 to give Virgil a kiss on the lips. It's scripted, obviously, but it's very controversial for the time, and gets a huge amount of heat from viewers.

@The WalkmanIn fact, he had Steamboat pay me a visit to emphasize never to add anything to someone else's TL again without asking first.

I just hope your arm is recovering well. He didn't tell me he was going to put you in an armbar, for Christ's sake!

Anyway, that's quite an update. I remember in OTL that DiBiase had a rivalry going on with both Hogan and Savage, especially after the events of OTL Wrestlemania IV. Will Steamboat and DiBiase have a similar rivalry going on?

Yes. We'll see Steamboat's response to DiBiase's plan to buy the World Title in the next update!

Taking a completely unscientific shot in the dark, given that Vince was talking about "mid-card heels", I'll say the two men are Michael Hayes (perfect for building other dudes) and someone from an otherwise overlooked promotion so far: Fred Ottman. It'd be a whole year before his OTL WWF debut, at least.

Nope, not Hayes or Ottman...

 

[Unknown]

Here's a little bit of trivia you all didn't know: guess who could have played Samantha (the love interest) in No Holds Barred? Meryl Streep, of all people (and keep in mind, she'd already won two Academy Awards and three Golden Globes, not to mention having been nominated for several other awards). She was fired after having creative differences with Hogan (I can only imagine what they were; maybe Hogan feared she'd out-act him (1))…

This is mind-boggling, IMO...

(1) Frankly, that ain't a difficult job, IMO...

 

[HesitatedEye]

Here's a little bit of trivia you all didn't know: guess who could have played Samantha (the love interest) in No Holds Barred? Meryl Streep, of all people (and keep in mind, she'd already won two Academy Awards and three Golden Globes, not to mention having been nominated for several other awards). She was fired after having creative differences with Hogan (I can only imagine what they were; maybe Hogan feared she'd out-act him (1))…

This is mind-boggling, IMO...

(1) Frankly, that ain't a difficult job, IMO...

I said it before and I'll say it again Hogan doesn't job for anyone not even Oscar Winners the only star in Hogan's mind is Hogan. Pretty sure in his mind Rocky 3 was the Hulk Hogan story with Sly guest starrring.

 

[DakotaTimeTraveler]

Remember what I was mentioning before? There was controversy in the 1980s and well into the 1990s over Satanic influences in children's cartoons and toys. For a general idea, I'm linking a YouTube video called "Deception of a Generation"; it involves the author of the book Turmoil in the Toy Box and a pastor talking about the Satanic aspects of toys/cartoons like Masters of the Universe, Thundercats, and even the 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo(!). This is about an hour and a half long so you'd better get a sandwich before watching this.

I am eager to see what the Walkman has in store for the All Things Asian fad. I could imagine the two hosts in the video looking over Dragonball, Voltron, etc. going over Satanic influences and ranting about how Japan is a non-Christian society.

 

[Unknown]

@DakotaTimeTraveler, have you ever watched The Cinema Snob? He really skewered Deception of a Generation in his DVD R-Hell series

Here's the video, BTW:

It's really not hard to mock Deception of a Generation...

 

[CultBoy]

I heard about that but never seen the video, will give it a look when I've got a chance.

 

[mrcubfan415]

I could imagine the two hosts in the video looking over Dragonball

Oh no you don't! DragonBall is not evil, and I will not allow such a masterpiece of an anime to be banned based on false accusations!

 

[L'Spectre]

I signed up for this forum just to say how much I've enjoyed this timeline. I've had this thread open in my browser for the last two months slowly reading through it -- when I initially saw it was started in 2013 and had 18 pages, I wouldn't have ever imagined it was still active, or I would have read through it so much faster!

I actually found this after another alternate history from this time period got me intrigued -- the "Superfly Effect" on insidepulse.com, which basically told the dual story of Hogan sticking with the AWA and David Von Erich surviving. That got me into looking for other similar stories, which quickly led me to Wrestlecrap and over here. As someone who grew up as a military brat in Okinawa in the early 90s, and fell in love with wrestling through VHS tapes there, I love everything about this. Late 80s WWF and Japanese nerd culture basically is my childhood.

I'm sure it's not in the cards, but New Japan's "Three Musketeers" seem like they would be so perfect here, given Steamboat's rise driving more interest in Asian culture. Plus, there was a lot of angst about Japan's economic rise challenging US supremacy around this point (my favorite example is RoboCop 3) -- I'm kind of surprised McMahon was so late to the game there, with Yokozuna starting the serious Japanese villain trope in late 92 (beyond Mr. Fuji), after the Japanese economy was already crashing. And the Musketeers have just sort of formed in Puerto Rico around this point in 88 while on an extended excursion from NJPW -- Mutoh ends up in WCCW by the end of the year, and Chono in CCW, although Hashimoto is back in Japan by July.

It was always crazy to me that Chono was born in Seattle, and he seems like he could have been a hugely successful villain in the WWF. Plus you just know Shinya Hashimoto would have been given a cartoonish version of his "Fat Japanese Elvis" nickname by McMahon at some point, and it would have been terribly racist. I'm imagining a tag team with the Honky Tonk Man, with Kaientai-like "choppy choppy" stupidity. And Yokozuna doesn't seem like he'd be as in demand in a world where the big men are a bit devalued, while Mutoh's Kabuki-like gimmick could fill much the same role. And the matches he'd have with Steamboat, Hart, and Savage ...

On the more realistic side of that, does the Great Muta gimmick even exist if Mutoh isn't billed as the Great Sasuke's son by Gary Hart in early 89? Or is his name forever mispronounced if any announcer but JR calls his debut? Also, no Gary Hart? I don't think he's been referenced once here, which seems unfortunate for such a creative mind. Hopefully he has a role in this WCW.

 

[DakotaTimeTraveler]

@L'Spectre Welcome! You also bring up some interesting points. I am aware that professional wrestling is big in Japan. In fact, before the Rock'n Wrestling era of the mid-1980s to early 1990s, foreign wrestlers like Andre the Giant, Billy Graham and Hulk Hogan were very big in Japan. During the 1970s and the early 1980s, the Japanese wrestling outfits would pay through the nose for foreign wrestlers to wrestle in Japan. Some of these wrestlers were so iconic that they have been depicted in Japanese media like video games. Like the character of Andore from Capcom's Street Fighter and Final Fight games - an obvious caricature of Andre the Giant. Or Giant Panther from the NES game Pro Wrestling based on Hulk Hogan.

I know @The Walkman hasn't touched much on Japan. I assume that things are going there as they were in OTL with the booming bubble economy of the 1980s and then its catastrophic crash in the 1990s; it's hard to imagine Steamboat could be creating butterflies over in the Land of the Rising Sun.

Of course, he did mention the All Things Asian fad. If anime does go mainstream in North America earlier than OTL, that could have some considerable butterflies. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[L'Spectre]

Ah, what I meant more was that the three wrestlers that would basically define Japanese wrestling's biggest promotion in the 1990s were actually working in the US at the point the Walkman currently has this timeline at. At the point of Wrestlemania 4, all three are working in Puerto Rico, and two of the three would then move on to the mainland US by late 1988.

What I thought was interesting was that fact actually would cause major butterflies into Japan. I'd imagine up until this point there would be almost no change, but the Musketeers actually being in the US now (and they've really just arrived) could easily begin those changes. If the "Asian fad" caused any of them to stick around in the US longer, it would have a major impact on the development of Japanese wrestling. And if nothing else, Mutoh's history has to change, because WCCW doesn't exist as it did in OTL. And Mutoh had quite a bit of success in OTL's WCW even without a "Steamboat effect."

So I disagree that Steamboat couldn't be making changes in Japan

 

[Nivek]

@L'Spectre Welcome! You also bring up some interesting points. I am aware that professional wrestling is big in Japan. In fact, before the Rock'n Wrestling era of the mid-1980s to early 1990s, foreign wrestlers like Andre the Giant, Billy Graham and Hulk Hogan were very big in Japan. During the 1970s and the early 1980s, the Japanese wrestling outfits would pay through the nose for foreign wrestlers to wrestle in Japan. Some of these wrestlers were so iconic that they have been depicted in Japanese media like video games. Like the character of Andore from Capcom's Street Fighter and Final Fight games - an obvious caricature of Andre the Giant. Or Giant Panther from the NES game Pro Wrestling based on Hulk Hogan.

I know @The Walkman hasn't touched much on Japan. I assume that things are going there as they were in OTL with the booming bubble economy of the 1980s and then its catastrophic crash in the 1990s; it's hard to imagine Steamboat could be creating butterflies over in the Land of the Rising Sun.

Of course, he did mention the All Things Asian fad. If anime does go mainstream in North America earlier than OTL, that could have some considerable butterflies. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Ah, what I meant more was that the three wrestlers that would basically define Japanese wrestling's biggest promotion in the 1990s were actually working in the US at the point the Walkman currently has this timeline at. At the point of Wrestlemania 4, all three are working in Puerto Rico, and two of the three would then move on to the mainland US by late 1988.

What I thought was interesting was that fact actually would cause major butterflies into Japan. I'd imagine up until this point there would be almost no change, but the Musketeers actually being in the US now (and they've really just arrived) could easily begin those changes. If the "Asian fad" caused any of them to stick around in the US longer, it would have a major impact on the development of Japanese wrestling. And if nothing else, Mutoh's history has to change, because WCCW doesn't exist as it did in OTL.

So I disagree that Steamboat couldn't be making changes in Japan -- even if it was as simple as Mutoh never becoming the Great Muta, there's a clear point in mid-1988 where he could cause major butterflies that would reverberate throughout the 1990s.

We've a japanese descendant wrestler as the face of western wrestling...that is a mothra size butterfly for the japanese.

 

[DakotaTimeTraveler]

Nivek, I hadn't thought about it like that. I guess we'll have to wait and see what our friend, the Walkman, has in store in the next posts.

 

[Neoteros]

We've a japanese descendant wrestler as the face of western wrestling...that is a mothra size butterfly for the japanese.

About the American professional wrestling/Japanese puroresu connection, what if they brought the Crush Gals over for a few matches? I know it'll be hard to make the Fabulous Moolah stomach the presence of Chigusa Nagayo and Lioness Asuka in her immediate surroundings but, since Ricky Steamboat is half Japanese, he could introduce them to American audiences and they could introduce him to Japanese audiences - sure, he's not full Japanese, but neither was Rikidozan: they both were people of East Asian origin fighting and winning against legions of Western heels, and that's what the Japanese liked about Rikidozan, and could like about Steamboat. The fact that Steamboat's gimmick heavily played up on his Japanese heritage could help, too.

Asuka and Chigusa would be an investment for the future, too - due to the incredibly sexist age requirements of the AJW, they could spend their late 20s and early 30s in the WWF, alongside Matsumoto and Nakano - all four of them had brief stints overseas, but they didn't amount to much.

 

[CultBoy]

About the American professional wrestling/Japanese puroresu connection, what if they brought the Crush Gals over for a few matches? I know it'll be hard to make the Fabulous Moolah stomach the presence of Chigusa Nagayo and Lioness Asuka in her immediate surroundings but, since Ricky Steamboat is half Japanese, he could introduce them to American audiences and they could introduce him to Japanese audiences - sure, he's not full Japanese, but neither was Rikidozan: they both were people of East Asian origin fighting and winning against legions of Western heels, and that's what the Japanese liked about Rikidozan, and could like about Steamboat. The fact that Steamboat's gimmick heavily played up on his Japanese heritage could help, too.

Asuka and Chigusa would be an investment for the future, too - due to the incredibly sexist age requirements of the AJW, they could spend their late 20s and early 30s in the WWF, alongside Matsumoto and Nakano - all four of them had brief stints overseas, but they didn't amount to much.

That's a pretty cool idea.

 

[Neoteros]

That's a pretty cool idea.

It's an idea that would seriously impact the women's division in the 1990s, too - if Ricky "the Dragon" Steamboat being the face of the WWF instead of Hulk Hogan means an earlier rise of agile and light performers, having the average sized Crush Gals be the face of WWF's women's division means that people like Madusa and Chyna won't be as influential in this TL as they were IRL, since they relied on their presence and size to rise above the rest of their peers. They would both be able to adapt, however - their respective experiences in Japan had them bust out moves they basically never employed in their homeland.

 

[Alstein]

I don't think Mutoh would have been good in 90s WWF. 90s Mutoh was prone to laziness in the ring, and WWE style and schedule would convince him to take many nights off. He might have a few good matches a year, but he'd probably just rely a lot more on shtick than substance.

Also , you're underestimating Madusa's wrestling chops here- she was trained in the same environment as many of those Japanese women you mentioned. She wasn't asked to do a whole lot due to the state of American's women wrestling, but if you saw some of her WCW stuff, she could go.